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Thursday, November 21, 2013

Updated Eurogenes K13 at GEDmatch


The old Eurogenes K13 has been replaced by a new model with different, and hopefully more robust, ancestral clusters. The new version also includes Oracles as well as 2D and 3D Principal Component Analyses (PCA). The K13 population averages and genetic (Fst) distances between the inferred ancestral clusters are available here and here, respectively.

GEDmatch > Ad-Mix Utilities > Eurogenes > K13

Below is a 2D PCA based on the average K13 results of the European and Asian reference populations, courtesy of project member PL16.


Thus, Eurogenes now has four tests at GEDmatch with Oracles: the Jtest, EUtest, EUtest V2 and the K13. It's useful to keep in mind that these tests will differ in their interpretation of the data, and perhaps accuracy, depending on the ancestry of the user. For instance, the new K13 should be more useful for Central and South Asians than any of the others, because it features new reference samples relevant to them.

225 comments:

1 – 200 of 225   Newer›   Newest»
$$$Dollar$$$ said...

Population
North_Atlantic 15.23%
Baltic 7.75%
West_Med 5.64%
West_Asian 1.90%
East_Med 6.82%
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.71%
East_Asian 7.75%
Siberian -
Amerindian 1.79%
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 3.48%
Sub-Saharan 48.92%

Davidski said...

Dude, you should post your ancestry as well. Makes it more useful for people.

sds said...

Thanks for the updated tool David. So, when you say, "more robust ancestral clusters" do you mean this updated version is more geared toward ancient, rather than recent ancestry?

$$$Dollar$$$ said...

Davidski, would you consider running a calculator for people with significant African ancestry?

$$$Dollar$$$ said...

African American, Chinese, Scottish mix.

Onur said...

Could you post the component Fst distances?

BTW, who are the Hakas? You mean the Khakas?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khakas_people

Davidski said...

It should be more robust for both recent and ancient ancestry (recent in the Oracles, and ancient in the Ad-mix output).

Davidski said...

Yeah, the Hakas are Khakas.

Onur said...

Thanks for posting the Fst distances, David. Could you post your tables in spreadsheet format next time? It sometimes becomes cumbersome to look at the values in the current format.

barakobama said...

"Population
North_Atlantic 15.23%
Baltic 7.75%
West_Med 5.64%
West_Asian 1.90%
East_Med 6.82%
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.71%
East_Asian 7.75%
Siberian -
Amerindian 1.79%
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 3.48%
Sub-Saharan 48.92%"

Are you mixed European and African American or just black from another nationality.

$$$Dollar$$$ said...

Mixed

Onur said...

Also it would be very useful to add a data sink to this blog.

Davidski said...

What is that?

barakobama said...

I just put all the Fst values into excel so I can read it accurately. Is it the smaller the number the more related? For example 0.019 between North Atlantic and Baltic means they are very related right? If that is true this is very constant with the Fst's of globe13, K7b, and K12b.

What is Eurogenes, GEDmatch, and Oracles? I have seen many times Principal Component Analysis (PCA) but I have no idea how it works or exactly what it means.

Davidski I know you can't explain all this stuff in every post. But I would like to understand all of the things you are talking about.

$$$Dollar$$$ said...

Davidski, what is the difference between the K=9b and the K=9, likewise the K=12b and the K=12?

Seinundzeit said...

Hi David,

I like this calculator. My results:
1 West_Asian 39.65
2 South_Asian 34.46
3 Baltic 9.39
4 East_Med 5.97
5 Siberian 2.69
6 Amerindian 2.46
7 Red_Sea 1.69
8 North_Atlantic 1.53
9 Oceanian 1.01
10 Sub-Saharan 0.59
11 East_Asian 0.55

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Pathan 5.29
2 Kalash 7.33
3 Burusho 8.45
4 Sindhi 11.37
5 Punjabi_Jat 11.45
6 Makrani 14.06
7 Balochi 14.28
8 Brahui 14.79
9 Tadjik 19.09
10 Brahmin_UP 24.29
11 Gujarati 24.35
12 Kshatriya 25.95
13 Turkmen 27.2
14 Bangladeshi 29.77
15 Kumyk 30.45
16 Chechen 30.51
17 Lezgin 30.55
18 Iranian 30.63
19 Adygei 31.64
20 Balkar 31.99

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 88.8% Pathan + 11.2% Abhkasian @ 2.73
2 88.8% Pathan + 11.2% Georgian @ 2.85
3 88% Pathan + 12% North_Ossetian @ 2.99
4 88% Pathan + 12% Adygei @ 3.09
5 76.2% Pathan + 23.8% Makrani @ 3.11
6 88.3% Pathan + 11.7% Balkar @ 3.17
7 88% Pathan + 12% Kumyk @ 3.31
8 88.1% Pathan + 11.9% Chechen @ 3.34
9 88.9% Pathan + 11.1% Kurdish @ 3.42
10 88.3% Pathan + 11.7% Lezgin @ 3.42
11 88.4% Pathan + 11.6% Iranian @ 3.47
12 78.7% Pathan + 21.3% Brahui @ 3.58
13 78.3% Pathan + 21.7% Balochi @ 3.64
14 91.4% Pathan + 8.6% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.68
15 91.3% Pathan + 8.7% Armenian @ 3.68
16 88.2% Pathan + 11.8% Turkmen @ 3.87
17 91.8% Pathan + 8.2% Azeri_Jewish @ 3.88
18 92.3% Pathan + 7.7% Assyrian @ 3.94
19 91.4% Pathan + 8.6% Turkish @ 3.99
20 91.3% Pathan + 8.7% Nogay @ 4.15

David, the autosomal data from the "Afghan Hindu Kush" paper is finally available, http://www.evolutsioon.ut.ee/MAIT/public_data/afghan/

Would you be interested in adding this data to K13? It would make the Oracle function much more informative, and the clusters would become even more robust for individuals like myself.

Davidski said...

Good idea. I'll do that this weekend.

Seinundzeit said...

Great, thank you!

Onur said...

Something like the one in this blog (its link is on the left side with the link title "Vaêdhya Data Sink"). Basically it is a Google Drive page in which you put results of your genetic analyses together and this way you and your readers can access them much more easily.

Onur said...

David, the data of the Mal'ta paper too are available:

http://www.evolutsioon.ut.ee/MAIT/public_data/malta/

You can use them as well.

Seinundzeit, what are your known ethnic origins?

Onur said...

Barak,

Yes, the smaller the Fst (=short for "fixation index") value, the smaller the genetic distance. Fst is one of the measures of genetic distance. You can find detailed information about it here.

Eurogenes, GEDmatch and Oracles are tools or services that provide tools for seeing the genetic results of people and populations and making comparisons between them for genetic and/or genealogical purposes.

PCA (=short for "principal component analysis") shows a part of the genetic variation (but not all of it) in and between populations in usually a two- or three- dimensional coordinate system where every axis represents one of the principal components, which are basically the detected patterns in the genetic variation. Principal components (shortened as "PC") are labeled according to what percent of the total genetic variation they represent from the highest to the lowest as "first", "second", "third", "fourth", "fifth", etc. or as "PC1", "PC2", "PC3", "PC4", "PC5", etc. Detailed info about PCAs and PCs can be found here.

BTW, could you also put the population averages into Excel and upload it to a sharing website together with the Fst distances Excel file?

Seinundzeit said...

Just a Pashtun on both sides of the family, but my family is a bit of a tribal melting pot ;-).

The oracle results are consistent with what I get elsewhere. The more accurate ones construe me as 85%-90% HGDP Pashtun, and 15%-10% any-Northerly-Caucasus-Population (North Ossetians, Abkhazians, Lezgins, etc. Occasionally, I get around 10% Armenian or Georgian). Other accurate Oracles put me at 90% HGDP Pashtun, and 10% any-Southwest Asian-Population (Bedouins, Jordanians, Palestinians, etc). The less genealogically accurate ones put me at 60% Sindhi-Punjabi-Kashmiri and 40% Turkmen, or 55% Sindhi-Punjabi-Kashmiri and 45% Tajikistani Tajik. Although genealogically very inaccurate, I suppose this sort of result still makes population-genetic sense.

I'm HRP0282 on Harappa Ancestry Project.

Onur said...

So you are HRP0282, who recently participated in an interesting discussion on Pashtun origins at the Harappa website with me. Are you an Afghanistani Pashtun?

About Time said...

Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 45.3
2 Baltic 33.49
3 West_Med 11.37
4 West_Asian 4.23
5 East_Med 2.74
6 Amerindian 0.97
7 Siberian 0.65
8 Red_Sea 0.43
9 Oceanian 0.43
10 Sub-Saharan 0.2
11 Northeast_African 0.15
12 South_Asian 0.04

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Swedish 4.36
2 North_Swedish 5.53
3 Norwegian 5.7
4 Dutch 7.06
5 German 7.73
6 Danish 9.41
7 Orcadian 9.72
8 Irish 10.64
9 Southeast_English 10.66
10 West_Scottish 11.46
11 Southwest_English 12.21
12 Southwest_Finnish 12.4
13 Austrian 12.95
14 Hungarian 13.36
15 Polish 15.27
16 French 17.58
17 Ukrainian_West 17.65
18 Ukrainian 17.95
19 Finnish 18.28
20 Estonian 19.4

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70.8% Orcadian + 29.2% Lithuanian @ 1.36
2 73.7% Dutch + 26.3% Estonian @ 1.5
3 61.5% Southwest_English + 38.5% Estonian @ 1.64
4 64.8% Southeast_English + 35.2% Estonian @ 1.73
5 67.3% West_Scottish + 32.7% Lithuanian @ 1.75
6 64% West_Scottish + 36% Belorussian @ 1.77
7 64.2% Dutch + 35.8% Southwest_Finnish @ 1.81
8 67.8% Orcadian + 32.2% Belorussian @ 1.81
9 66.9% Orcadian + 33.1% Estonian @ 1.84
10 65.8% Irish + 34.2% Belorussian @ 1.96
11 76.9% Norwegian + 23.1% Ukrainian @ 1.96
12 73.9% Norwegian + 26.1% Polish @ 1.96
13 65.9% Southwest_English + 34.1% Lithuanian @ 2.01
14 77.5% Dutch + 22.5% Lithuanian @ 2.01
15 69.1% Irish + 30.9% Lithuanian @ 2.07
16 71.7% Danish + 28.3% Lithuanian @ 2.08
17 64.9% Irish + 35.1% Estonian @ 2.08
18 63.1% West_Scottish + 36.9% Estonian @ 2.12
19 72.9% Dutch + 27.1% Finnish @ 2.13
20 82.4% Swedish + 17.6% Ukrainian @ 2.13

Least-squares method.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Lithuanian + Southeast_English + Swedish + West_Scottish @ 2.394
2 Lithuanian + Orcadian + Southeast_English + Swedish @ 2.408
3 Lithuanian + Norwegian + Orcadian + Southeast_English @ 2.412
4 Irish + Lithuanian + Southeast_English + Swedish @ 2.431
5 Irish + Lithuanian + Norwegian + Southeast_English @ 2.467
6 Lithuanian + Orcadian + Southwest_English + Swedish @ 2.470
7 Lithuanian + Norwegian + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 2.489
8 Lithuanian + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + Swedish @ 2.490
9 Dutch + Estonian + Southeast_English + Swedish @ 2.511
10 Danish + Lithuanian + Norwegian + Southeast_English @ 2.535
11 Danish + Lithuanian + Southwest_English + Swedish @ 2.541
12 Lithuanian + Norwegian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.543
13 Lithuanian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Swedish @ 2.552
14 Dutch + Lithuanian + Norwegian + Southwest_English @ 2.557
15 Dutch + Lithuanian + Norwegian + Southeast_English @ 2.561
16 Lithuanian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Swedish @ 2.563
17 Lithuanian + Norwegian + Norwegian + Southwest_English @ 2.572
18 Lithuanian + Norwegian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 2.580
19 Danish + Lithuanian + Southeast_English + Swedish @ 2.581
20 Dutch + Lithuanian + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 2.588

Pct. Calc. Option 1
1 Swedish 79.09%
2 Ukrainian 16.90%
3 Southwest_French 3.92%
4 Portuguese 0.04%
5 Sardinian 0.03%
6 Erzya 0.02%
7 Samaritan 0.00%
8 Serbian 0.00%
9 Bulgarian 0.00%
10 Hungarian 0.00%

Pct. Calc. Option 2
1 Swedish 59.19%
2 North_Swedish 14.00%
3 Russian 8.16%
4 Erzya 7.95%
5 Southwest_French 4.95%
6 Sardinian 4.29%
7 Southeast_English 1.09%
8 Spanish_Galicia 0.35%
9 Samaritan 0.01%
10 Portuguese 0.01%

My ancestry is 5/8 Irish (mostly western), 1/8 German, 1/8 Polish/German from West Prussia, 1/8 misc. Anglo American. I don't have any recent Scandinavian AFAIK, so I think it's mainly the high Baltic from my German/Polish ancestry that gives output the Swedish/Norwegian tendency.

Seinundzeit said...

I thoroughly enjoyed our discussion at HAP. I found it very productive, and I feel that I came into contact with a lot of new ideas and facts, which otherwise would have escaped my attention.

It becomes rather complicated in my case, but at the end of the day, more of my ancestry is attributable to Pashtun tribes unique to Pakistan, rather than Pashtun tribes unique to Afghanistan. Neverthless, I've seen results for three individuals who are basically identical to myself in terms of autosomal breakdowns and affinities, and two are Afghanistani Pashtuns, while one is (surprisingly) a Afghanistani Tajik. One of these individuals is HRP0281, whose tribal and provincial origins are unknown to me (which is rather unfortunate, I have a natural interest in this individual's background), and the second and third being individuals I share with on 23andMe. The Afghan Tajiks results surprised me, the individual in question is extremely similar to myself, despite being from the far north of Afghanistan, and having no known Afghan Pashtun admixture. In comparison to the HGDP Pashtun samples, what really differentiates me is a much lower Gedrosia-Baloch component, a stronger affinity to Southwestern Asians (Levantines and people from the Arabian peninsula), a stronger affinity to Caucasus populations, much heavier Turkic admixture, and a weaker South Asian affinity.

I'm really excited about the Afghan Pashtun samples from the "Hindu Kush" paper. Although the sample size is truly disappointing (4-5 individuals), and even though they sampled isolated Pashtun communities from the far north of the country (communities that have very high rates of intermarriage with local Tajiks, due to their isolation from the Pashtun heartland south of the Hindu Kush), this is quite an important filling-in-the-gap for understanding Eurasian genetic variation. I'm looking forward to their integration into K13, as well as HarappaWorld.

Nevertheless, my hope is that another sampling opportunity arises, and we can eventually see samples from solidly Pashtun areas in Afghanistan, such as Loya Paktia (Paktia, Paktika, and Khost), Loya Nangarhar (Nangarhar, Laghman, and Kunar), or Loya Kandahar (Kandahar, Helmand, Uruzgan, and Zabul). Preferably and ideally, all of these regions should be sampled, since we might see substantial sub-structure (but this might be extremely difficult in terms of logistics, and the political and military situation is only worsening in the region, so I'm afraid this may never really happen). Also, larger sample sizes would be great (4-5 individuals is terrible, they could have at least tried to match the HGDP sample sizes of 20-25 individuals). But I have no right to whine, this is much better than nothing.

Onur said...

You are welcome. I am always interested in the history of ancient peoples. In the absence of any foreseeable academic sampling of the core Pashtun regions of Afghanistan, participation of people from the Afghanistani Pashtun diaspora in online genome projects such as Harappa, Dodecad and Eurogenes is especially of utmost importance for revealing the genetic structure of Afghanistani Pashtuns and Pashtuns as a whole.

mikej2 said...

I am Finnish, all ancestry Finnish back to the 1700s

1 North_Atlantic 36.25
2 Baltic 45.17
3 West_Med 6.64
4 West_Asian 3.44
5 East_Med 0.26
6 Red_Sea 0.00
7 South_Asian 1.33
8 East_Asian 1.51
9 Siberian 3.90
10 Amerindian 1.24
11 Oceanian 0.26
12 Northeast_African 0.00
13 Sub-Saharan 0.00


Oracle-x


Pct. Calc. Option 2

0 Unable to determine 0.01%
1 Southwest_Finnish 58.93%
2 Estonian 10.46%
3 Lithuanian 8.47%
4 Erzya 8.30%
5 Finnish 4.57%
6 Swedish 2.96%
7 Norwegian 2.07%
8 Malay 2.06%
9 Irish 1.09%
10 Burusho 1.07%

Total RMSD: 0.666506


Pct. Calc. Option 1

1 Southwest_Finnish 73.02%
2 Lithuanian 22.56%
3 Swedish 2.26%
4 Malay 1.28%
5 Kalash 0.83%
6 Erzya 0.02%
7 Burusho 0.01%
8 Tadjik 0.01%
9 Hazara 0.01%
10 Uygur 0.00%

Total RMSD: 0.477253

Davidski said...

I've added the Afghan samples to the averages sheet (see above) and sent them off to John at GEDmatch to include in the oracles. I also sent him the PCA loadings, so the PCA tool should soon be available on the K13 page at GEDmatch.

Seinundzeit said...

Great! Thank you so much.

Is it possible for you to post the individual results for the Afghan samples? I ask this because one of the Afghan Pashtuns is extremely East Eurasian on the PCA plots, and one of the Afghan Tajiks is extremely South Asian in comparison to the others on the PCA plot. So it would be interesting to see the individual variation being concealed behind the averages for these 5 populations. Thank you.

Davidski said...

I used the following samples to get the averages. I picked three of the most typical ones from each group, thus removing all the outliers.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o3EYTdM8lQcnhhQ2lvdU1xeUU/edit?usp=sharing

Seinundzeit said...

Thanks!

barakobama said...

Onur,

"Yes, the smaller the Fst (=short for "fixation index") value, the smaller the genetic distance. Fst is one of the measures of genetic distance. You can find detailed information about it here.

Eurogenes, GEDmatch and Oracles are tools or services that provide tools for seeing the genetic results of people and populations and making comparisons between them for genetic and/or genealogical purposes."

Thank you very much Onur for the help. I am trying to learn all of this and it is very complicated. It would be much easier if I was taught this in a school. Maybe I will do some type of genetics in college To understand what Wikpedia is saying is like learning a new language. There are so many words they use were I don't really know what their saying. Varied, various, variable, etc. are used so much it is hard to understand exactly what they mean.

This is the way it seems to me Fst's are found based on Wikpedia. They take SNP's from the austome chromosomes and use statistical formulas to see how related one or more people are to each other.

This is what I think SNP's and autosome chromosomes are. Please correct this if I am wrong.

SNP's are single nucleotide's which vary between different members of the same species. If I have A-G-A-B and you have B-G-A-B. The two alleles of that SNP are B and A.

Austome chromosomes are not sex chromosomes and there are 22 pairs in humans. Each parent gives you one in each pair it was the same for their parents their grand parents and so on. So autosomal DNA traces ancestry from all lines. It basically can tell you how related you are to someone not just on direct maternal and paternal lines.

"Eurogenes, GEDmatch and Oracles are tools or services that provide tools for seeing the genetic results of people and populations and making comparisons between them for genetic and/or genealogical purposes."

Are they profitable businesses? Do each use different tools? Are they all about serious study or do they allow people to take the tests just because they want to? I want to take one but I am a total mut of many different European ethnicity's(German, Norwegian, English, Cornish, Scottish, Swiss). I probably wouldn't help their research at all.

barakobama said...

"BTW, could you also put the population averages into Excel and upload it to a sharing website together with the Fst distances Excel file?"

I am still putting population averages into Excel. I don't know why there is no source or number of samples given. If you give me your email I can email you the Fst's in excel and probably populations tomorrow mourning or afternoon. I am not allowed to do the sharing website's, sorry.

barakobama said...

North_Atlantic 45.3
1 North_Atlantic 36.25

2 Baltic 33.49
2 Baltic 45.17

3 West_Med 11.37
3 West_Med 6.64

4 West_Asian 4.23
4 West_Asian 3.44

5 East_Med 2.74
5 East_Med 0.26

mikej2 is on top about time on bottom. I would assume Baltic and north Atlantic is somehow of pre Neolithic European hunter gather descended. It is surprising the Finnish guy mikej2 didn't have that much less west med, west Asian, and east med than abouttime. I know that it has been shown Finnish and east Baltic's probably have the highest European hunter gather ancestry but I think there is definitely significant farmer ancestry. The mtDNA haplogroups percentages of Finland fit extremely close to all other Europeans. Probably mainly from farmers not hunter gathers.

It confuses me since there is no evidence of farming in most of Finland and Scandinavia till the copper and bronze age right? How did such farmer like mtDNA become dominate even in those areas?

mikej2 said...

@barakobama

Your observation is interesting. When this kind of analyses are focused just on Europe or weighted to Europe all clusters are very near each other and the difference manifested by such groups like North Atlantic, South Baltic and Baltic-Finnic is very small. This leads "in watcher's eyes" to overestimating of differences. When we have "next door" clusters, like West Asia, we can obtain a better reckoning about differences between groups and individuals.

Onur said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Onur said...

Barak,

Yes, apparently you understand the basics of the autosomal genetics-related concepts. Of course there is still much too learn for you about autosomal genetics, but you don't have to learn all that stuff to understand the subjects covered in this and similar blogs.

Eurogenes, GEDmatch and Oracles do not want any money from their test participants. They use the genetic data of people who were already tested by genetic testing companies such as 23andMe and FTDNA. They utilize those genetic data to better elucidate the genetic relationships between people and/or populations and thus make people better sense of their or others' place in the extant human genetic variation.

Thanks for your efforts in Excel. You can email me at saedcdedxwcyvaqytasqcuvvgdcvtg at gmail dot com. This is a temporary email address and it was named randomly (hence the weird username).

Dudatory said...

Algerian:
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.32
2 Red_Sea 21.90
3 West_Med 17.32
4 Sub-Saharan 10.35
5 North_Atlantic 9.46
6 Northeast_African 8.54
7 Amerindian 1.11


--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Algerian @ 8.881
2 Mozabite_Berber @ 10.894
3 Moroccan @ 11.455
4 Egyptian @ 15.527
5 Bedouin @ 20.694
6 Sephardic_Jewish @ 23.867
7 Palestinian @ 25.122
8 Jordanian @ 25.246
9 Ashkenazi @ 25.758
10 South_Italian @ 26.413

Vinnie said...

My 100% Sicilian mother is getting Amerindian 1.18, which just isn't possible given her known genealogy for the last 250 years. What could be reading as Amerindian in a Sicilian?

Davidski said...

There are ancient links between Europeans and Amerindians, and on top of that, some of the Amerindian references have recent European admixture. This can result in false positive results of up to 1%, or even a bit more, for many Europeans and other West Eurasians.

Also keep in mind that the tools are set up to process a lot of people quickly. If the settings were changed the noise would come down, but the computational burden of that wouldn't be worth it.

Vinnie said...

Thanks much! Also, do you know if the Southern Italian/Sicilian fix you sent for K15 has been added to Gedmatch? If it has, I don't see any difference.

Davidski said...

I'm not sure, you can e-mail John and ask. I definitely sent them through.

Fanty said...

"It confuses me since there is no evidence of farming in most of Finland and Scandinavia till the copper and bronze age right? How did such farmer like mtDNA become dominate even in those areas?"

There had been tests that showed that Finns (and right next are Swedes, then followed by Balts and then Slavs) are populations that base on a very tiny number of people whos population numbers exploded in extrem short time resulting in the observation that they all apear like close relatives. (wich also makes outsiders who are related to one of those, apear like related to all of them. Examples are: A random Swede is closer related to a random Finn than to a random Swede. A random German is closer related to a random Pole than to a random German. There is even a western example of this: a random English is closer related to a random Irish than to a random English.

Also: Farmers and Hunter/Gatherers have different phenotypes.
Farmers phenotypes is more close to modern ideals of sexyness and beauty than the hunter gatherer phenotypes. (simplyfied one could claim: ugly (or "normal") people look like Hunter/gatherers and sexy people look like Farmers ;-) (cold climate HG are robust people with heavy bones, wide faces and lots of body fat while farmers, who originate in hot climates are filigrane and thin like models for hotpants. He he he

Maybe the elven like apearances of farmer women compared to the dwarven like apearance of HG women made them a trading good? *cough cough* or prefert loot in raids? :-D

That, combined with the possible very tiny start populaton of NE Europe (specially Finland) could turn the numbers to their odds.

I think the scientific term for that is: "Sexual Selection".

barakobama said...

"There are ancient links between Europeans and Amerindians"

It does seem that way based on 24,000 year old Mal'ta Siberian Genome. I wont make any big conclusions on what type of ancestry Mal'ta had till I really understand how autosomal DNA works. I think Mal'ta means that there was mixing between west Eurasians maybe specifically European's with related people or ancestors to modern Amerindians. mtDNA X2 in Native Americans is very good evidence their ancestors did mix a little with west Eurasians. I am not sure what Native Americans have X2. If it is the Inuit or just east Asian looking ones or the "redskins" which is what most Americans think of as Native Americans.

If Europeans or other west Eurasians and Native Americans ancestors mixed with each other which is definitely possible. That probably could explain some Amerindian results in Europeans. And also definitely recent European mixture with Native Americans can help explain it.

My dad took Geno 2.0. And in Who am I test he got 40% Med, 35% north Euro, 16% Southwest Asian, 5% Native American, 2% Sub Saharan, and 2% Oceania. I have wanted to take a another type of autosomal DNA test myself or have my dad take it. Because he had about 10% to much Med and to little north Euro compared to people from his ancestral nations. There is a typical Jewish last name in one of our recent German ancestors. I think better autosomal DNA tests can show if we are part Jewish, Native American, Sub Saharan, Oceania, middle eastern, or another type of European.

Davidski said...

You don't understand. It doesn't matter if the ancestral alleles of modern Amerindians originated in a European-like population or not. Today they're typically Amerindian, and seen as such by the software, especially because Amerindians have low haplotype diversity due to multiple founder effects and drift.

In other words, it's easier for Amerindians to create ancestral populations or components specific to them, and the model-based software is more likely to see the ancient links between Amerindians and Europeans as gene flow from the former to the latter.

barakobama said...

Fanty,

Do you have any evidence the farmers and hunter gathers in Europe had majorly different phenotypes i really doubt it. It would make sense there were some minor differences in body build, skull shape, body hair, facial hair. Both were west Eurasian's they would have had basically the same features. The only major difference I am pretty sure between Europeans and other west Eurasians are Europeans are much paler in skin, hair, and eye color.

Based on autosomal DNA tests of farmers and hunter gathers. I think many or all farmers in Europe during the Neolithic age were pale skinned, and almost all dark haired and eyed. That is the exact pigmentation Otzi had and Pontic steppe people around his time had pale skin and darker eyes than average.

Hunter gathers based on their closest modern relatives. I think may have looked a lot like Baltics and Scandinavians. I doubt all farmers and hunter gathers had the same phenotype and many farmers may have been very different from each other genetically. Those are just my guesses and I may be very wrong. It is possibly though that hunter gathers and farmers could be identified by phenotype not just culture.

I am just starting to learn about pre historic cultures. Ancient DNA seems to say the hunter gathers and farmers in Europe were two distinct groups. I am sure farmers and hunter gathers saw each other as distinct groups. It would make the most sense to me all modern Europeans descend mainly from farmers based ancient mtDNA but autosomal DNA tells a different story.

I don't think the answer to the inconsistency with mtDNA and autosomal DNA is hunter gather men everywhere in Europe went absolutely crazy for farmer women and used them as a trading item.

Since we know the farmer's quickly dominated and in a way replaced the hunter gathers in Europe. We know that many Indo Europeans in copper and bronze age did the same. In former areas of Corded ware culture Y DNA R1a1a1b1 Z283 is extremely popular Y DNA R1a1a1b2 Z93 is very popular in modern Indo Iranian speakers and areas there were Indo Iranian speakers in bronze and iron age. R1b1a2a1a L11 I think was probably spread by Germanic, Italics, and Celts and became the dominate paternal lineage in west Europe probably also because of conquest. So if the farmers conquered the hunter gathers it would make more sense that it would be hunter gather maternal lineages that survived best. The 24 of 31 Y DNA from European farmers in Neolithic age is G2a and one had E1b1b V13 only 4 had I2a1 which would be hunter gatherer descended.

I also don't think you can explain farmer maternal lineages being dominate everywhere in Europe by a tiny founding population with farmer women everywhere not just Finland.

It will probably take along time to solve the mtDNA and autosomal DNA inconstancy. I think there is definitely significant Near eastern farmer ancestry everywhere in Europe. But not mainly from the same ancestors modern near easterns descend from.

Davidski said...

They did have different phenotypes because it shows in their skeletal features, which makes sense because they initially had very different DNA.

But I don't see why the farmers are supposed to be the better looking ones? The hunter-gatherers were bigger and more athletic, probably because they ate a lot of meat and fish. On the other hand, the farmers were usually small and slight of build, and in fact often suffered from malnutrition and tooth decay because they lacked variety in their diet and relied heavily on carbohydrates.

The reason the farmers dominated much of Europe genetically when they first arrived from the Near East is because growing crops could sustain more people per sq kilometer than foraging. I suppose in a way it was quantity winning over quality.

But we really haven't learned the whole story yet, because Y-DNA haplogroups like R1 and I in Europe might be mostly markers of indigenous hunter-gatherer ancestry.

About Time said...

Why hunter men and farmer women? Why not the other way around, farmer Y-DNA and hunter mtDNA.

It's not so much about who was prettier. Probably there were good looking farmers and good looking hunters. But if the farmers were doing reasonably well and lived in close knit groups compared to the late stage hunters, then it might be the "rich and successful" farmer males that the hunter girls were more attracted to.

That said, the children of those unions might not have been favored by the farmer's wife or her kinfolk. You'd end up with farmer Y-DNA showing up in the hunter gene pool over time or forming their own mixed community because they were not really accepted by either the farmers or hunters. I'd imagine mostly farmer Y-DNA and hunter mtDNA, based on human nature.

As for women from a nice farmer households marrying some shabby impoverished woodsman? Not likely. Eloping, maybe, then the child would probably be raised in the farmer household in those rare cases. So you would have limited Y-DNA introgression from hunters. Dribs and drabs, but really not much.

Davidski said...

There was a shift in the mtDNA structure in Central Europe from Near Eastern-like to European-like during the late Neolithic/early Bronze Age. But even then it was still more Near Eastern than European, so how is it that Northern and Eastern Europeans are today more European hunter-gatherer than Near Eastern farmer in terms of autosomal DNA?

It looks like the populations that migrated to Central Europe at that time, like the Indo-Europeans, were overwhelmingly of paternal European hunter-gatherer ancestry. Except by that stage they weren't just hunter-gatherers, but also pastoralists, metallurgists and warriors. They also liked to build kurgans.

People learn new stuff, adapt, and then turn the tables. It's happened many times.

Helgenes50 said...

My ancestry is 4/4 Normand ( from France)


1 North_Atlantic 48.95
2 Baltic 20.84
3 West_Med 17.61
4 West_Asian 3.34
5 East_Med 6.68
6 Red_Sea 0.72
7 South_Asian 0.00
8 East_Asian 0.00
9 Siberian 0.00
10 Amerindian 0.87
11 Oceanian 0.00
12 Northeast_African 0.00
13 Sub-Saharan 0.98


Pct. Calc. Option 1

1 Southeast_English 84.15%
2 French_Basque 5.88%
3 Spanish_Murcia 5.01%
4 Sardinian 4.26%
5 Yoruban 0.59%
6 Algerian 0.08%
7 Moroccan 0.02%
8 Serbian 0.01%
9 Mozabite_Berber 0.00%
10 Tuscan 0.00%


Pct. Calc. Option 2

0 Unable to determine 0.01%
1 Southeast_English 43.15%
2 Swedish 8.80%
3 Norwegian 7.31%
4 French_Basque 7.18%
5 Orcadian 7.11%
6 West_Scottish 6.53%
7 Sardinian 6.53%
8 Moroccan 6.47%
9 Danish 5.78%
10 French 1.13%

In the last Eurotest The % of Eastern European ( Baltic+ East Euro) is 15.58%
And in the K13 of 20.84 %
+ 5% ?

The African percentage seems high, although still present in all calculators and detected at 23andme

Davidski said...

That particular oracle is probably the most experimental. But you're from Normandy, so you'll most likely get English as your top match in all the oracles, because the K13 French reference samples aren't very Normandian.

Anyway, it does seem as if you have some minor Sub-Saharan ancestry.

Helgenes50 said...

Indeed, I always get english, Cornish or Kent, in my top match in all the oracles.

That's very interesting
There are a lot of differences between French regions, Northwest France and North( likeFlanders) seem very close of the British results

About Time said...

Hunter bands might have been tracking east then tracked back west (into Europe) into Europe. People get wanderlust.

The way I imagine it, the "first farmers" were really more like the first proto-city folk. They might have been even a little snobby and better organized (esp if they coordinated between villages for defence, intelligence, etc). Hunters might have just tried to move away at some point, into the wilderness (like so many native tribes tried to do in the US when the white man showed up with his cities and armies).

Later on, the hunter bands might have run out of options or tried to stage a confrontation with the farmers. The inter-marriage "war widow" scenario in another I described in another comment might even have been closer to not "male hunters + female farmers" but more like "male hunters marrying war widow females from hybrid settlements of semi-rejected offspring of farmer/hunters."

Then you'd end up with, as you say, hybrid mtDNA pool but mostly hunter Y-DNA. Hunters would have a really hard time just marrying farmer girls if there was any prestige difference (i.e., the farmers would have been prestigious - not the hunters!).

As someone mentioned on one of the Mal'ta comments, all you have to do is read some Native American old fashioned stories about hunters going on long (really long, months or years) trips to explore and hunt to realize that men move around. Especially if they are semi banished or if they need to find game.

Tribes definitely tried to move away from the white man's settlements in many cases as well once the army got involved. All the more reason to just leave farmer occupied areas until there were no other options. That's when they finally rolled back into Europe as you are describing.

Davidski said...

I think what happened was that the final Neolithic cultures of Europe basically collapsed into a heap, and created a vacuum into which many of the groups from the peripheries rushed in. But by this time these groups weren't just a bunch of opportunistic forest people; they brought with them social, military and food production innovations which were obviously better suited to post-Neolithic Europe. It's easy to imagine that a lot of women from the collapsing farming communities were absorbed into their new rising cultures.

Actually, the aDNA project that is looking at this period of European prehistory is called The Rise. Very apt name, I think.

http://polishgenes.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/hundreds-of-prehistoric-scandinavian.html

About Time said...

What I imagine is very close to this, except that I honestly imagine this was a terrible period. For everyone involved. I think the hunters were pushed out of their homes by the Neolithic and that many died or lived marginal lives, for a long time.

The farmers probably "hired" some hunters (mostly women) as "the help," but lived in fear that the hunter men would show up for raids. Just as the American settlers feared the Indian.

Some hunters just moved away. Those that tried to fight were probably finally overcome, just because the farmers were better organized. Only later did some hunters return in a better organized form, and what happened was probably terrible for many people involved.

As you can see from my results I posted, I am a European person. I think we need to figure this out, in full. This is our chance, maybe the only chance in a long time.

crowens3 said...

I am an American with some deep colonial roots. My ancestry on paper is approximately 42% German, 34% British, 10% Irish, 6% Prussian (Poland), and about 8% unknown, mostly European. I calculate that I have about 0.5% Amerindian and about 0.5% South Asian based on various tests. In 23andMe, I have 0.1% Sub-Saharan African on one segment.

North_Atlantic 42.06%
Baltic 23.61%
West_Med 14.70%
West_Asian 7.54%
East_Med 7.42%
Red_Sea 0.18%
South_Asian 1.65%
East_Asian -    
Siberian 0.08%
Amerindian 1.16%
Oceanian 0.83%
Northeast_African 0.76%
Sub-Saharan -    

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 German @ 4.449
2 Dutch @ 8.087
3 Southeast_English @ 8.827
4 French @ 9.376
5 Danish @ 10.568
6 Orcadian @ 10.593
7 Southwest_English @ 11.020
8 Irish @ 11.636
9 Austrian @ 11.966
10 West_Scottish @ 12.420
179 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Austrian +50% Southwest_English @ 3.402
2 50% French +50% German @ 3.892
3 50% Austrian +50% Southeast_English @ 3.909
4 50% Hungarian +50% Southwest_English @ 3.975
5 50% Serbian +50% West_Scottish @ 4.010
6 50% Austrian +50% West_Scottish @ 4.349
7 50% Irish +50% Serbian @ 4.367
8 50% German +50% German @ 4.449
9 50% Austrian +50% Irish @ 4.467
10 50% Serbian +50% Southwest_English @ 4.520
16110 iterations.



Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Southeast_English +25% German +25% Romanian @ 1.951
2 50% Southeast_English +25% Bulgarian +25% Irish @ 1.975
3 50% Southeast_English +25% Bulgarian +25% Dutch @ 1.976
4 50% Irish +25% Bulgarian +25% German @ 1.980
5 50% Southwest_English +25% Bulgarian +25% German @ 1.989
6 50% Southeast_English +25% Dutch +25% Romanian @ 2.022
7 50% Southwest_English +25% German +25% Romanian @ 2.029
8 50% West_Scottish +25% Bulgarian +25% German @ 2.036
9 50% Dutch +25% Bulgarian +25% Southwest_English @ 2.056
10 50% Orcadian +25% Bulgarian +25% German @ 2.067
388210 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Bulgarian + German + Irish + Southwest_English @ 1.722
2 German + Irish + Romanian + Southeast_English @ 1.780
3 Bulgarian + German + Irish + Southeast_English @ 1.784
4 German + Romanian + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 1.797
5 Bulgarian + German + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 1.801
6 Bulgarian + German + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 1.803
7 Bulgarian + Dutch + Irish + Southeast_English @ 1.807
8 Bulgarian + German + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 1.823
9 Bulgarian + Danish + German + Southwest_English @ 1.863
10 German + Romanian + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 1.896
11 Bulgarian + Dutch + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 1.907
12 German + Orcadian + Romanian + Southeast_English @ 1.907
13 German + Orcadian + Romanian + Southwest_English @ 1.917
14 Bulgarian + Dutch + Orcadian + Southeast_English @ 1.927
15 Bulgarian + Dutch + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 1.935
16 Bulgarian + German + Irish + Orcadian @ 1.937
17 German + Romanian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 1.951
18 Bulgarian + German + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 1.951
19 German + Irish + Romanian + Southwest_English @ 1.959
20 Danish + German + Romanian + Southwest_English @ 1.963

Oracle X
Pct. Calc. Option 2

1 German 79.76%
2 Sardinian 8.94%
3 Austrian 3.64%
4 Kshatriya 3.16%
5 Hungarian 3.16%
6 Mayan 1.12%
7 Papuan 0.11%
8 Tadjik 0.11%
9 Samaritan 0.00%
10 Lezgin 0.00%

jackson_montgomery_devoni said...

Davidski,

What are your thoughts on the origins of the North_Atlantic component in this calculator?

barakobama said...

"But we really haven't learned the whole story yet, because Y-DNA haplogroups like R1 and I in Europe might be mostly markers of indigenous hunter-gatherer ancestry"

Davidski you know that the vast majority of Y DNA under R1 in Europe spread 5in the last 5,000 years. It is possibly R1a has European hunter gatherer origin or that the Indo Europeans that spread R1a1a1 M417 had mainly hunter gatherer ancestry. R1b1a2a1a L11 though its ancestral subclades definitely go back to the middle east.

There is no strong evidence any R1b1a2 M269 in all of Europe has been in Europe for over 8,000 years. The only thing you can argue is that the people who spread R1b1a2a1a L11 and R1a1a1 M417 mainly in copper and bronze age had mostly hunter gatherer ancestry.

Otzi and Gok4 autosomal DNA results are constant with Neolithic Europeans low amount of pre Neolithic European mtDNA haplogroups. In Europe today though except for Sardinia there is obviously much more hunter gather ancestry. Possibly Indo European migrations and R1b M269 and R1a M417 might have something to do with that. Also maybe Y DNA I1 and I2.

I really don't understand why hunter gatherers maternal lineages and probably also mainly paternal linages didn't survive well but their overall ancestry did.

barakobama said...

"Why hunter men and farmer women? Why not the other way around, farmer Y-DNA and hunter mtDNA.

It's not so much about who was prettier. Probably there were good looking farmers and good looking hunters. But if the farmers were doing reasonably well and lived in close knit groups compared to the late stage hunters, then it might be the "rich and successful" farmer males that the hunter girls were more attracted to.

That said, the children of those unions might not have been favored by the farmer's wife or her kinfolk. You'd end up with farmer Y-DNA showing up in the hunter gene pool over time or forming their own mixed community because they were not really accepted by either the farmers or hunters. I'd imagine mostly farmer Y-DNA and hunter mtDNA, based on human nature.

As for women from a nice farmer households marrying some shabby impoverished woodsman? Not likely. Eloping, maybe, then the child would probably be raised in the farmer household in those rare cases. So you would have limited Y-DNA introgression from hunters. Dribs and drabs, but really not much. "

It is really hard to say how farmers and hunter gatherers interacted. It was definitely very different at ages and for different farmer and hunter gatherer groups. The only things I can think of that we can use to figure out how they interacted is their remains(including DNA), studying modern and historical people. We can make some theories that may be accurate or extremely inaccurate.

These people grew up in very different cultures than our's. I kind of doubt hunter women would see farmer men as more attractive because they were " rich and successful". It seems you have this stero type that the farmers were much more civilized and the hunter gatherers were a bunch of rednecks.

The farmers were very primitive in our standards just look at Otzi the iceman. They still only used stone tools and animal skin clothing would be common. I would assume many had long greasy hair and beards. The main difference between them and hunter gatherers was how they got their food. Farmers had mainly domesticated food while hunter gatherers hunted and gathered their food. Maybe there was some differences where the farmers were seen as more civilized.



Davidski said...

It's a North European (mainly Mesolithic) component shifted to the west by gene flow coming from the Atlantic Fringe (ie. West Mediterranean diversity in Northwest Europe not captured with the West Med component).

barakobama said...

"There was a shift in the mtDNA structure in Central Europe from Near Eastern-like to European-like during the late Neolithic/early Bronze Age"

I dis agree about European mtDNA that European mtDNA was ever (modern) Near eastern like. Even though the overall haplogroup percentages of LBK 109 mtDNA samples are very different from any modern Europeans. It is not extremely similar to modern Near easterns., The subclades of their haplogroups are extremely European like and not Near eastern like.

It does seem that looking at ancient and modern mtDNA central European mtDNA became like it is today in late Neolithic or another time in the Neolithic.

But how do you explain the same basic percentages in Finland, Ireland, Spain, Italy, Bulgaria, Russia, Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania., etc. Bell Beaker cant always be the answer. There is very similar maternal ancestry in all of Europe that has to come from the same source. Maybe Bell Beaker made central Europe like the rest of Europe but there has to be an answer why all of Europe today has such similar mtDNA.

"It looks like the populations that migrated to Central Europe at that time, like the Indo-Europeans, were overwhelmingly of paternal European hunter-gatherer ancestry. Except by that stage they weren't just hunter-gatherers, but also pastoralists, metallurgists and warriors. They also liked to build kurgans."

R1b1a2a1a L11 is not a European hunter gatherer paternal lineage R1a1a1 M417 might be though. Warriors and just men fighting men(sometimes women) to the death is apart of all human society's.

I think it is that they now had much more deadly weapons and could conquer much more easily. It also does seem that Indo European groups were very good at war that is how they spread their languages and Y DNA.

"People learn new stuff, adapt, and then turn the tables. It's happened many times."

There have been many Genetic shifts in many parts of Europe since the start of the Neolithic age. There will have to be more autosomal DNA samples from many different Neolithic farmer groups in Europe. So far though it does seem that there was a huge increase of north European like aka hunter gatherer like ancestry in Europe at the same time Y DNA R1b1a2a1a L11, R1a1a1 M417, and Indo European languages spread.

That huge study of 100's of Bronze age north European DNA will be able to tell a lot about that Shift to more hunter gatherer like. Because those samples should be coming straight from the people who started the shift.

jackson_montgomery_devoni said...

So the French Basques then are mainly a North European (Mesolithic) like population? They score very high in that component. That seems a bit different than other runs.

Davidski said...

I'd say Basques are around 40% hunter-gatherer. If that's correct, then the North Atlantic component should be 70-80% hunter-gatherer, and the Baltic maybe 90% or even more.

jackson_montgomery_devoni said...

Ahhh okay interesting thanks....Do you think then that the West_Med, East_Med and West_Asian components are composed of majority Neolithic alleles?

About Time said...

IMO farmers would have had some kind of ideology and group ethos to regularize work and help individuals endure hardships of boring labor with no immediate benefits (planting, preparing fields, waiting seasonally, etc).

Whether they were objectively "better" is irrelevant. But they would have required a belief on part of members that their daily toil was somehow justified and rational. Hunters don't require same type of "faith" because they will just hunt when there is game, move if not, or starve.

Farming requires time management, dedication, diligence when there are no immediate benefits, division of labor, etc. A kind of religion almost with lots of rules to regulate planting times, resource management, etc. Circumstances would require then to think they were better than others, to discourage defectors.

Otzi could have been an outcast or traveler. Maybe not typical. For hunters learn about actual Am Indians. Lots of examples of behavior etc.

Davidski said...

West Med and East Med should be purely Neolithic, but West Asian is heavily mixed, and probably has a lot of that Eurasian mammoth-steppe influence that came out South Asian in the study of the Mal'ta genome.

jackson_montgomery_devoni said...

Very interesting stuff indeed. I think I must be more hunter-gatherer than the Basques are on the whole. Since you say they are probably around 40% Mesolithic hunter-gatherer in origin I must be around 50% or so. Here are my K13 results below. Based on these how much Mesolithic hunter-gatherer ancestry would you say I have? That is my last question about all of this.

Population
North_Atlantic 37.20%
Baltic 27.20%
West_Med 11.37%
West_Asian 7.31%
East_Med 9.84%
Red_Sea 1.40%
South_Asian 1.31%
East_Asian 0.40%
Siberian 1.53%
Amerindian 1.17%
Oceanian 1.15%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.11%

Davidski said...

Yeah, you're around 50% hunter-gatherer, maybe just over.

jackson_montgomery_devoni said...

Thanks again. :)

Liz Davenport said...

Thank you, Davidski, for your ongoing good work. :-) Here are my results:

Population
North_Atlantic 45.31%
Baltic 21.07%
West_Med 14.13%
West_Asian 9.83%
East_Med 4.25%
Red_Sea 0.45%
South_Asian 1.50%
East_Asian 0.86%
Siberian 0.72%
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.60%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 1.29%

Pct. Calc. Option 2

0 Unable to determine 0.01%
1 Southwest_English 54.60%
2 Swedish 15.27%
3 Makrani 8.57%
4 Nogay 7.95%
5 Southwest_French 7.34%
6 Ukrainian 4.03%
7 Yoruban 1.11%
8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 1.09%
9 Serbian 0.02%
10 Balkar 0.00%

Pct. Calc. Option 1

1 Southwest_English 83.99%
2 Chechen 9.68%
3 Nogay 2.06%
4 Bulgarian 1.37%
5 Yoruban 1.05%
6 Uygur 0.92%
7 Sardinian 0.73%
8 Makrani 0.13%
9 Hazara 0.07%
10 Uzbeki 0.00%

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 German 5.61
2 Dutch 6.99
3 Southeast_English 7.07
4 Southwest_English 7.61
5 Orcadian 7.8
6 Irish 8.06
7 Danish 8.16
8 West_Scottish 8.67
9 French 9.57
10 Norwegian 10.71
11 Swedish 11.4
12 Austrian 14.54
13 Hungarian 15.86
14 North_Swedish 16.39
15 Spanish_Cataluna 16.69
16 Spanish_Galicia 17.96
17 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 18.05
18 Portuguese 18.19
19 Southwest_French 18.59
20 Spanish_Cantabria 18.68

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 86.5% Southwest_English + 13.5% Balkar @ 1.72
2 86.1% Southwest_English + 13.9% Kumyk @ 1.78
3 87.1% Southwest_English + 12.9% North_Ossetian @ 1.87
4 86.9% Southwest_English + 13.1% Adygei @ 1.91
5 86.2% Southwest_English + 13.8% Chechen @ 2.02
6 86.4% Southwest_English + 13.6% Lezgin @ 2.21
7 88.9% Southwest_English + 11.1% Abhkasian @ 2.29
8 88.4% Southwest_English + 11.6% Georgian @ 2.37
9 85.2% Southwest_English + 14.8% Nogay @ 2.49
10 86.6% Southwest_English + 13.4% Turkmen @ 2.54
11 87.9% Southeast_English + 12.1% Balkar @ 2.6
12 88.3% Southeast_English + 11.7% North_Ossetian @ 2.68
13 88.8% Orcadian + 11.2% Abhkasian @ 2.68
14 87% Southwest_English+ 13% Afghan_Tadjik @ 2.7
15 88.3% Orcadian + 11.7% Georgian @ 2.7
16 86% Southwest_English + 14% Tadjik @ 2.76
17 88.2% Southwest_English + 11.8% Kurdish @ 2.81
18 85.9% Irish + 14.1% Turkish @ 2.81
19 88.4% Southwest_English + 11.6% Iranian @ 2.82
20 88.3% Southeast_English + 11.7% Adygei @ 2.87

I was very interested to see that I had gained "a drop" of Red Sea in this version of K13, as well as a fair amount of Makrani in the Oracle-X Pct. Calc. Option 2 results. The Makrani people are a mix of Indian and Bantu -- is that correct? However, Pct. Calc. Option 1 results only show a little Makrani. ??

About Time said...

It looks like Germans and Austrians tend to get some East Med. Anyone else notice this? In fact with low east med levels, those pops don't seem to come up in results. Would be interested if more Germans/Austrians here posted their k13 with oracles.

barakobama said...

Davidski, is it for sure that many people are more related in autosomal DNA to hunter gatherers samples than farmer.

Davidski said...

All the countries near the Baltic and North Seas are probably over 50% hunter-gatherer, especially in the East Baltic area. All the countries south of the Alps and Pyrenees are certainly more than 50% farmer.

Christine Manczuk said...

My dad has no known Amerindian background, pedigree-wise, and he has a consistent 1% Amerindian (Arctic) and Siberian results (he's American with mostly British Isles with some German/Polish and about 1/2 Norwegian). Davidski looked at my dad's results posted to his Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 release blogpost, and thought it looked recent and was possibly Saami. Saami would make more sense than Greenland, although I suppose Greenland is possible, who knows. All the GEDmatch utilities show him with that constant Amerindian, and even Ancestry considers him to have trace Native American (and practically zero Finnish, which I don't understand).

I thought that Sardinian can also yield an unexpected Amerindian result?

Christine Manczuk said...

My dad's pedigree estimate is 1/2 Norwegian (some Swedish thrown in that), plus abt 1/4 each of British Isles and German. Ancestry has him with Great Britian 62%, Scandinavia 33%, Ireland 2%, Europe West %2, Native American <1%. GEDmatch utilities seem to average him as being Dutch with strong leanings to British Isles, with Baltic/Finnish/Scandinavian/Russian and some Slovenia/Balkans, Caucasus/Turkic, and Siberian/Arctic Amerind minor populations. He is American:

Population
North_Atlantic 44.91%
Baltic 28.77%
West_Med 12.34%
West_Asian 6.86%
East_Med 3.16%
Red_Sea 0.06%
South_Asian 0.33%
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.33%
Amerindian 1.08%
Oceanian 0.67%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.49%

Christine Manczuk said...

Oracle
Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 German 3.8
2 Dutch 4.17
3 Swedish 5.22
4 Norwegian 5.44
5 Orcadian 7.04
6 Danish 7.08
7 Southeast_English 7.69
8 Irish 7.97
9 West_Scottish 8.91
10 North_Swedish 9.11
11 Southwest_English 9.25
12 Austrian 12
13 Hungarian 12.79
14 French 13.97
15 Southwest_Finnish 16.09
16 Polish 17.35
17 Ukrainian_West 19.31
18 Serbian 19.38
19 Ukrainian 19.99
20 Spanish_Cataluna 21.5

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.7% Orcadian + 26.3% Ukrainian_West @ 1.6
2 88.5% Dutch + 11.5% Erzya @ 1.68
3 83.4% Norwegian + 16.6% Bulgarian @ 1.7
4 81.6% Norwegian + 18.4% Romanian @ 1.72
5 68.8% West_Scottish + 31.2% Ukrainian_West @ 1.75
6 77.7% Orcadian + 22.3% Ukrainian_Northeast @ 1.78
7 71.2% Irish + 28.8% Ukrainian_West @ 1.79
8 90.6% Dutch + 9.4% Chuvash @ 1.81
9 72% Irish + 28% Ukrainian @ 1.81
10 87.2% Dutch + 12.8% Kargopol_Russian @ 1.81
11 74.5% Orcadian + 25.5% Ukrainian @ 1.83
12 69.5% West_Scottish + 30.5% Ukrainian @ 1.85
13 71.8% Orcadian + 28.2% Polish @ 1.85
14 79.1% Norwegian + 20.9% Serbian @ 1.87
15 77.5% Orcadian + 22.5% Russian @ 1.9
16 69% Irish + 31% Polish @ 1.91
17 86.4% Dutch + 13.6% Russian @ 1.93
18 76.4% Southwest_English + 23.6% Erzya @ 1.95
19 66.5% West_Scottish + 33.5% Polish @ 1.98
20 86.6% Dutch + 13.4% Ukrainian_Northeast @ 1.98

Christine Manczuk said...

Oracle-4
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Dutch @ 4.488
2 German @ 4.494
3 Swedish @ 5.616
4 Norwegian @ 5.878
5 Orcadian @ 7.842
6 Danish @ 7.857
7 Southeast_English @ 8.648
8 Irish @ 8.840
9 West_Scottish @ 9.947
10 North_Swedish @ 10.127
179 iterations.



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% German +50% Swedish @ 2.744
2 50% German +50% Norwegian @ 3.155
3 50% Dutch +50% German @ 3.944
4 50% German +50% North_Swedish @ 3.979
5 50% Dutch +50% Swedish @ 4.012
6 50% North_Swedish +50% Southeast_English @ 4.418
7 50% Dutch +50% Dutch @ 4.488
8 50% German +50% German @ 4.494
9 50% Dutch +50% Norwegian @ 4.549
10 50% Dutch +50% North_Swedish @ 4.586
16110 iterations.



Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Orcadian +25% Ukrainian @ 1.914
2 50% Irish +25% German +25% Polish @ 1.940
3 50% Orcadian +25% Irish +25% Ukrainian @ 1.940
4 50% Irish +25% Dutch +25% Polish @ 1.971
5 50% Orcadian +25% Southwest_English +25% Ukrainian_Northeast @ 1.978
6 50% Irish +25% Russian +25% Southeast_English @ 1.979
7 50% Irish +25% Dutch +25% Ukrainian @ 1.989
8 50% West_Scottish +25% German +25% Ukrainian @ 2.009
9 50% Irish +25% Southwest_English +25% Ukrainian_Northeast @ 2.010
10 50% Orcadian +25% Irish +25% Ukrainian_West @ 2.011
358717 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Irish + Orcadian + Southwest_English + Ukrainian_Northeast @ 1.907
2 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + Ukrainian @ 1.914
3 Orcadian + Southwest_English + Ukrainian_Northeast + West_Scottish @ 1.929
4 Dutch + Irish + Orcadian + Polish @ 1.935
5 German + Irish + Irish + Polish @ 1.940
6 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Ukrainian @ 1.940
7 German + Irish + Polish + West_Scottish @ 1.954
8 Dutch + Irish + Irish + Polish @ 1.971
9 Dutch + Irish + Ukrainian + West_Scottish @ 1.972
10 Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English + Ukrainian_Northeast @ 1.978
11 Irish + Irish + Russian + Southeast_English @ 1.979
12 Dutch + Irish + Irish + Ukrainian @ 1.989
13 Irish + Russian + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 2.007
14 German + Ukrainian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.009
15 Irish + Irish + Southwest_English + Ukrainian_Northeast @ 2.010
16 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Ukrainian_West @ 2.011
17 Irish + Southwest_English + Ukrainian_Northeast + West_Scottish @ 2.011
18 German + Irish + Orcadian + Polish @ 2.024
19 Dutch + Ukrainian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.027
20 German + Irish + Ukrainian + West_Scottish @ 2.038

Christine Manczuk said...

Pct. Calc. Option 1

1 Dutch 74.26%
2 Orcadian 12.50%
3 Erzya 11.00%
4 Balkar 1.87%
5 Papuan 0.24%
6 Selkup 0.11%
7 West_Greenlander 0.02%
8 Hungarian 0.00%
9 Nogay 0.00%
10 German 0.00%

Pct. Calc. Option 2

0 Unable to determine 0.01%
1 Dutch 64.97%
2 Erzya 9.06%
3 Southwest_English 6.50%
4 Orcadian 6.31%
5 Chechen 5.76%
6 Estonian 3.56%
7 French_Basque 2.75%
8 Selkup 1.06%
9 Bulgarian 0.01%
10 Chuvash 0.00%

Louis said...

The Ashkenazi/southern Italians are equal distances from Northern Italians and Lebanese (if you measure with a ruler), but of course they are clustered in the green color with Cypriots, Lebanese, and Druze. Does this mean they are genetically closer to those groups or is this arbitrary?

Davidski said...

The colors show the main ancestral cluster that peaks in each reference group. But their levels differ in each group, so the colors can't be used as a direct measure of genetic affinity, because there are 12 other clusters to consider.

At the same time, the PCA is based on only the two most important PCs, and ignores all the rest. So it can only give you a rough idea of genetic distances between the groups.

This study has some useful genetic comparisons between West Eurasian populations, including Jews.

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v21/n6/full/ejhg2012229a.html

The supplement section is also worth checking out.

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v21/n6/suppinfo/ejhg2012229s1.html?url=/ejhg/journal/v21/n6/full/ejhg2012229a.html

barakobama said...

Davidski I just heard yesterday that Vladimir Semargl says. That13,800-17.075 thousands year old Afontova-Gora-2 specimens'(not Mal'ta) Y-DNA was sequenced by YFull and it turned to be R1a1a.

I really hope this is true it is huge news. It would mean in my opinion R1a1a M17 existed all the way from Europe to Siberia in Palaeolithic or it was brought to east Europe form Siberia. Then spread with many indo European languages. This is also evidence that Mal'ta's people's R(not his line) later developed into R1.

When looking at the place that Y DNA R is in human y DNA tree. A west European aka Caucasian origin doesn't make sense.

barakobama said...

I meant west Eurasian not west European.

Davidski said...

So what do you think the Afontova-Gora sample was if not West Eurasian?

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/1925/2a61.png

Looks proto-West Eurasian to me. Definitely not East Asian.

Davidski said...

I spoke to Vladimir. Yeah, the Afontova-Gora sample is positive for various hg Q and R1a SNPs up to M417, and then he's negative for all downstream markers. So he seems to be R1a-M417*.

But the sequence quality is poor and there's a high chance of contamination for that sample.

ChrisR said...

@Davidski: please make the DIY calculator files (F, alleles, par, txt) for K13 and EUtestV2 K15 available.
Thank you very much!

barakobama said...

Afontova did not live in west Eurasia he lived in eastern Asia. I do agree in whatever that chart is that you showed that he clusters closely with Europeans and central to south Asians. So probably a lot of west Eurasian ancestry. Have they compared him to any people in middle east and north Africa?

He is way to young by about 40,000-50,00 years in my opinion to say proto west Eurasian.

barakobama said...

If he is positive for Q SNP's why do you say he is probably R1a1a1 M417*. If he is R1a1a1 M417* that is extremely important. Because that is seen by many people including myself as a Y DNA haplogroup of very early Indo Europeans in Russia-Ukraine. Afontova is way to old to make his people connected with Dnieper Donets and Yamna cultures.

This may R1a1a1 M417 existed in Siberia with a west Eurasian like people over 13,000 years ago. There is also a very good chance it existed in Russia-Ukraine area 8,000 years ago. We also know there was a people group in the same area of Siberia 24,000 years ago who had at least some Y DNA R. I think it is possibly that Y DNA R1a(maybe also R1b and R2) and everything downstream to R1a1a1 M417 originated in Siberia. But Mal'ta and Afontova people are extinct. There may still be some original Siberian R or R1a lineages.

I guess there was a back migration of Y DNA R1a1a1 M417 or at least R into Siberia during the bronze age. With probably proto Indo Iranians from Yamna culture. The way to tell if it is from Indo Iranians not Palaeolithic Siberians is if it is positive R1a1a1b S224. Y DNA R has a very confusing history.

Liz Davenport said...

Could anyone comment as to whether my results listed above, especially my Oracle-X results and my Oracle/Mixed Mode Population Sharing, seem at all out of the ordinary for a person with deep Southern Colonial U.S. ancestry?

Infidel said...

Kit F238654

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 30.5
2 Baltic 29.62
3 West_Med 14.96
4 East_Med 14.74
5 West_Asian 5.79
6 Siberian 1.94
7 Red_Sea 1.14
8 South_Asian 0.8
9 Oceanian 0.52

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 5.21
2 Austrian 5.25
3 Hungarian 5.39
4 Romanian 9.26
5 Bulgarian 11.91
6 Polish 13.73
7 Ukrainian_West 14.16
8 Ukrainian 15.1
9 German 15.57
10 French 16.21
11 Dutch 18.76
12 Russian 18.82
13 North_Italian 19.12
14 North_Swedish 19.23
15 Ukrainian_Northeast 19.33
16 Southwest_Finnish 20.11
17 Swedish 20.16
18 Southeast_English 20.2
19 Portuguese 20.38
20 Spanish_Galicia 20.6

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.5% Tuscan + 47.5% Estonian @ 2.09
2 61.3% Polish + 38.7% Tuscan @ 2.77
3 51.9% Tuscan + 48.1% Finnish @ 2.84
4 51.1% Belorussian + 48.9% Tuscan @ 2.88
5 86.3% Hungarian + 13.7% Ashkenazi @ 2.98
6 82.5% Serbian + 17.5% Southwest_Finnish @ 3.07
7 81.9% Serbian + 18.1% North_Swedish @ 3.07
8 51.9% North_Italian + 48.1% Belorussian @ 3.13
9 50.3% Serbian + 49.7% Austrian @ 3.17
10 87.1% Austrian + 12.9% Ashkenazi @ 3.19
11 51.3% Serbian + 48.7% Hungarian @ 3.2
12 83.3% Hungarian + 16.7% Tuscan @ 3.28
13 89.2% Hungarian + 10.8% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.31
14 62.4% Bulgarian + 37.6% North_Swedish @ 3.32
15 73.9% Austrian + 26.1% Bulgarian @ 3.36
16 55.2% Southwest_Finnish + 44.8% Greek @ 3.38
17 54.3% Tuscan + 45.7% Lithuanian @ 3.4
18 68.4% Austrian + 31.6% Romanian @ 3.44
19 88.2% Hungarian + 11.8% South_Italian @ 3.44
20 73.4% Hungarian + 26.6% Bulgarian @ 3.46


Mostly Hungarian with some known German ancestors. Possible Armenians from the Balkan region on direct paternal line via Y-DNA.

Henrik Alstad said...

My dad is of Northern-Norwegian and Finnish ancestry.
Both the K13 and the EUv2 gives him a lot of east-med and red-sea, which is not detected in the other eurogenes calculators.

Is this a fault of the new tests? Or is this an improvement that allows the new calcultors to pick it up? I don't know how relevant it is, my tests also found my dad to be of Y-DNA haplogroup J2b2.

Are these results within the probable normal of Northern-norwegian/finns?
Or is it definitely another east-med component here?

1 North_Atlantic 41.04
2 Baltic 33.44
3 West_Med 8.97
4 East_Med 5.01
5 Siberian 3.39
6 West_Asian 3.38
7 Red_Sea 1.42
8 Amerindian 1.32
9 South_Asian 0.99
10 Oceanian 0.81
11 Northeast_African 0.22

88.7% North_Swedish + 11.3% Ashkenazi @ 1.35
90.1% North_Swedish + 9.9% Sephardic_Jewish @ 1.6
91.4% North_Swedish + 8.6% Cyprian @ 1.7
89.4% North_Swedish + 10.6% South_Italian @ 1.71
92.1% North_Swedish + 7.9% Samaritan @ 1.72
88% North_Swedish + 12% Greek @ 1.74
92.3% North_Swedish + 7.7% Lebanese_Christian @ 1.82
81.5% North_Swedish + 18.5% Romanian @ 1.89
86.6% North_Swedish +13.4% Tuscan @ 1.92
83.4% North_Swedish + 16.6% Bulgarian @ 1.95
92% North_Swedish + 8% Palestinian @ 1.99
78.3% North_Swedish + 21.7% Serbian @ 2

Davidski said...

What does the 4 Ancestors Oracle say?

Henrik Alstad said...

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Swedish +25% Finnish +25% French @ 2.257
2 50% Finnish +25% Danish +25% French @ 2.261
3 50% Finnish +25% French +25% West_Scottish @ 2.388
4 50% Finnish +25% French +25% Southeast_English @ 2.413
5 50% Southwest_Finnish +25% French +25% Swedish @ 2.486
6 50% Danish +25% East_Finnish +25% Hungarian @ 2.493
7 50% Finnish +25% French +25% Orcadian @ 2.502
8 50% North_Swedish +25% North_Swedish +25% Serbian @ 2.504
9 50% North_Swedish +25% French +25% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.509
10 50% Southwest_Finnish +25% French +25% North_Swedish @ 2.534

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Danish + Hungarian + North_Swedish + Southwest_Finnish @ 2.099
2 Danish + Finnish + French + Southwest_Finnish @ 2.174
3 Hungarian + North_Swedish + Southeast_English + Southwest_Finnish @ 2.221
4 Hungarian + North_Swedish + Orcadian + Southwest_Finnish @ 2.250
5 Finnish + French + North_Swedish + North_Swedish @ 2.257
6 Danish + Finnish + Finnish + French @ 2.261
7 Austrian + Danish + North_Swedish + Southwest_Finnish @ 2.268

Henrik Alstad said...

Besides North-Swedish and Finnish, it seems the 4 ancestors oracle mostly mentions Hungarian, French, Austrian and Serbian

Chris N said...

@Davidski
Thank you and the team for your ongoing research. I posted my Admix from Eurogene K13 below. I have noticed in several of the Admix programs that Serbian and for that matter (Balkan) populations have been plotted. I can trace my ancestry back to southern Italy (paternal) and Poland/Austria (maternal), however, there is no "known" Balkan connection. My Y haplogroup is J2a1b* M-67, which I understand originated in the Caucasus. X haplogroup is H1a1 (common in Euro, including eastern Euro and Iberia).
Are the Balkan populations evident enough to further investigation?

Thanks for your help.

Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 28.79
2 Baltic 25.04
3 East_Med 18.43
4 West_Med 16.47
5 West_Asian 7.68
6 Red_Sea 2.20
7 Oceanian 1.38


--------------------------------



Using 1 population approximation:
1 Serbian @ 4.609
2 Romanian @ 6.012
3 Bulgarian @ 8.662
4 Austrian @ 11.372
5 Hungarian @ 11.979
6 North_Italian @ 16.453
7 Tuscan @ 18.074
8 French @ 18.256
9 Portuguese @ 20.285
10 Spanish_Galicia @ 21.041




Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Polish +50% Tuscan @ 3.606
2 50% Tuscan +50% Ukrainian_West @ 4.479
3 50% South_Italian +50% Southwest_Finnish @ 4.496
4 50% Tuscan +50% Ukrainian @ 4.510
5 50% Serbian +50% Serbian @ 4.609
6 50% Romanian +50% Serbian @ 4.681
7 50% Austrian +50% Bulgarian @ 4.800
8 50% Hungarian +50% Tuscan @ 5.014
9 50% Ashkenazi +50% North_Swedish @ 5.205
10 50% Bulgarian +50% Hungarian @ 5.456




Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Tuscan +25% Belorussian +25% Serbian @ 2.640
2 50% Tuscan +25% Austrian +25% Belorussian @ 2.790
3 50% Austrian +25% Ashkenazi +25% Serbian @ 2.790
4 50% Tuscan +25% Austrian +25% Ukrainian_Northeast @ 2.793
5 50% Serbian +25% Hungarian +25% Tuscan @ 2.856
6 50% Serbian +25% Austrian +25% Tuscan @ 2.869
7 50% Tuscan +25% Belorussian +25% Hungarian @ 2.875
8 50% Tuscan +25% Hungarian +25% Ukrainian_Northeast @ 2.898
9 50% Tuscan +25% Lithuanian +25% Serbian @ 2.918
10 50% Polish +25% North_Italian +25% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.929




Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Ashkenazi + Austrian + Belorussian + North_Italian @ 2.506
2 Ashkenazi + Belorussian + German + Tuscan @ 2.540
3 Ashkenazi + Austrian + North_Italian + Polish @ 2.562
4 Ashkenazi + Belorussian + Serbian + Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.597
5 Ashkenazi + Hungarian + North_Italian + Polish @ 2.631
6 Belorussian + Serbian + Tuscan + Tuscan @ 2.640
7 Ashkenazi + Belorussian + Bulgarian + French @ 2.678
8 Ashkenazi + French + Polish + Serbian @ 2.687
9 Ashkenazi + Belorussian + Romanian + Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.693
10 Ashkenazi + Belorussian + Greek + Southeast_English @ 2.705
11 Austrian + Lithuanian + North_Italian + Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.730
12 Ashkenazi + German + Lithuanian + Tuscan @ 2.730
13 Austrian + Belorussian + North_Italian + South_Italian @ 2.749
14 Ashkenazi + Greek + Lithuanian + Southeast_English @ 2.754
15 Ashkenazi + Belorussian + Serbian + Spanish_Valencia @ 2.758
16 Ashkenazi + Belorussian + French + Romanian @ 2.773
17 Ashkenazi + Austrian + Spanish_Valencia + Ukrainian_Northeast @ 2.776
18 Ashkenazi + Serbian + Spanish_Cataluna + Ukrainian_Northeast @ 2.777
19 Austrian + Belorussian + Tuscan + Tuscan @ 2.790
20 Ashkenazi + Austrian + Austrian + Serbian @ 2.790

Chris N said...

@Davidski

Forgot to include Calc. Option 2

Admix Results:


# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 28.37
2 Baltic 24.67
3 West_Med 16.23
4 West_Asian 7.57
5 East_Med 18.17
6 Red_Sea 2.17
7 South_Asian 0.83
8 East_Asian 0.00
9 Siberian 0.19
10 Amerindian 0.00
11 Oceanian 1.36
12 Northeast_African 0.43
13 Sub-Saharan 0.00


Pct. Calc. Option 2


1 Serbian 51.18%
2 Hungarian 8.04%
3 Sephardic_Jewish 7.37%
4 Algerian 7.33%
5 Spanish_Valencia 6.48%
6 Southeast_English 6.03%
7 North_Swedish 5.56%
8 Ukrainian_Northeast 3.13%
9 Ashkenazi 2.86%
10 Bulgarian 2.02%

Hermann-Josef Winter said...

I´m german with very low information about my ancestry so far and here are my results.

Admix Results:

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 44.07
2 Baltic 25.23
3 West_Med 14.61
4 West_Asian 6.84
5 East_Med 6.83
6 Red_Sea 0.77
7 South_Asian 0.00
8 East_Asian 0.00
9 Siberian 0.01
10 Amerindian 0.19
11 Oceanian 1.46
12 Northeast_African 0.00
13 Sub-Saharan 0.00


Pct. Calc. Option 2

1 German 76.55%
2 Swedish 9.01%
3 Sardinian 6.10%
4 Hungarian 3.11%
5 North_Swedish 2.96%
6 Moroccan 1.12%
7 Papuan 1.12%
8 Austrian 0.02%
9 Bulgarian 0.00%
10 Romanian 0.00%

Using 1 population approximation:
1 German @ 2.984
2 Dutch @ 6.187
3 Southeast_English @ 7.295
4 Orcadian @ 8.897
5 Danish @ 9.011
6 Southwest_English @ 9.572
7 Irish @ 10.097
8 Norwegian @ 10.476
9 Swedish @ 10.703
10 French @ 10.797
179 iterations.



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Austrian +50% Southwest_English @ 2.725
2 50% German +50% German @ 2.984
3 50% Austrian +50% West_Scottish @ 3.435
4 50% Hungarian +50% Southwest_English @ 3.507
5 50% French +50% Swedish @ 3.534
6 50% Austrian +50% Southeast_English @ 3.700
7 50% Austrian +50% Irish @ 3.741
8 50% Austrian +50% Orcadian @ 3.935
9 50% Hungarian +50% West_Scottish @ 4.208
10 50% French +50% Norwegian @ 4.214
16110 iterations.



Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Southwest_English +25% Bulgarian +25% Swedish @ 2.096
2 50% Southeast_English +25% Dutch +25% Serbian @ 2.119
3 50% Southwest_English +25% Bulgarian +25% Norwegian @ 2.138
4 50% Southwest_English +25% Romanian +25% Swedish @ 2.147
5 50% Southwest_English +25% German +25% Serbian @ 2.213
6 50% Southeast_English +25% Norwegian +25% Romanian @ 2.279
7 50% Southwest_English +25% Norwegian +25% Romanian @ 2.281
8 50% Dutch +25% Serbian +25% Southwest_English @ 2.303
9 50% Southeast_English +25% Irish +25% Serbian @ 2.321
10 50% Southeast_English +25% Orcadian +25% Serbian @ 2.323
383320 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Bulgarian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Swedish @ 2.096
2 Dutch + Serbian + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 2.105
3 Romanian + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + Swedish @ 2.111
4 Norwegian + Romanian + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 2.113
5 Dutch + Serbian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 2.119
6 Bulgarian + Norwegian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 2.138
7 German + Orcadian + Serbian + Southwest_English @ 2.140
8 Romanian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Swedish @ 2.147
9 German + Serbian + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 2.164
10 Bulgarian + Norwegian + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 2.172
11 Bulgarian + Norwegian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 2.204
12 German + Irish + Serbian + Southwest_English @ 2.207
13 German + Irish + Serbian + Southeast_English @ 2.209
14 Dutch + Orcadian + Serbian + Southeast_English @ 2.213
15 German + Serbian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 2.213
16 German + Serbian + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 2.218
17 Dutch + Irish + Serbian + Southeast_English @ 2.243
18 Bulgarian + Irish + Norwegian + Southwest_English @ 2.247
19 German + Serbian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 2.247
20 Bulgarian + Norwegian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 2.249

Davidski said...

When you mix Southern Italian with Polish you get a result that is very similar to most Balkan populations, which are a mix of Southeast Europeans and Slavic invaders.

Davidski said...

It seems like you've got some minor Southeastern European or West Asian ancestry. Maybe Jewish?

Chris N said...

@Davidski

So I can dismiss the Balkan calculation? If that is the case, what would be an estimated southern Italian & Polish percentage in your professional opinion, since these two populations do not appear in Pct. Calc. Option 2.

Thanks again for your feedback.

Davidski said...

You're more or less 50% Polish and 50% Italian, as you say.

1 50% Polish +50% Tuscan @ 3.606

But for a more detailed breakdown you might want try the Jtest 4 Ancestors Oracle, which discriminates more effectively between Ashkenazi and South Italian ancestry.

Chris N said...

@Davidski

The Jtest reflects the following:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SOUTH_BALTIC 16.92
2 EAST_MED 15.95
3 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 15.66
4 ATLANTIC 14.72
5 WEST_MED 11.07
6 EAST_EURO 9.75
7 WEST_ASIAN 7.03
8 ASHKENAZI 6.88
9 MIDDLE_EASTERN 2.01

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% PL +50% South_Italian &_Sicilian @ 4.572

As you suggested, spot-on.

Thank you for the clarification

RC Caudill said...

Hi David,
Great job creating another tool for all of us to use! Something I wanted to ask u about, I transferred my Ancestry kit to FTDNA, then re processed the data to gedmatch, and I got similar but different results. Anyway, I seen that effective after Sep 15 2013 FTDNA kits need to have X dna to be processed. My question is what does that effect? Just the matching tools or the admix tools as well?

Thanks!

Seth Reeder said...

I am US83 and M033622

My tightest Fit with the K13 Oracle-4 was 50% Irish + 25% German + 25% Southwestern French at 1.804. This run yielded the tightest fit yet, usually the scores are in between 3 or 5.

Davidski said...

I'm not sure how that works over there, but if you didn't get genotyped all over again, the you should've got exactly the same results, because the data is the same...unless they did something to it? Adding the X won't change the Ad-mix or Oracle results for any of the Eurogenes tests.

RC Caudill said...

They told me that Ancestry didn't process it all the way.? Not sure. But my Sub Saharan now comes over 2% on tests it previously came out at only .97. On their site it says 3.12% with only a 0.12 margin of error.? Not sure exactly how but yea I only transferred it over to them.

Volodymyr Lutsyk said...

What can you say about my results? I'm a Ukrainian Boyko highlander. Do you think I may have some Vlach ancestry due to Vlach migrations (My mother comes from Dragos-Sas nobility (Terlecka))? What percentage of it would you suggest? Is it possible to have strong links with the Balkans (high East_Med) with West_Asian and Red_Sea components being so low?Thank you in advance.
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 34.92
2 North_Atlantic 26.87
3 West_Med 15.12
4 East_Med 15.09
5 West_Asian 5
6 East_Asian 0.88
7 Northeast_African 0.67
8 Amerindian 0.52
9 Siberian 0.4
10 Red_Sea 0.32
11 Oceanian 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 7.7
2 Serbian 8.07
3 Austrian 8.62
4 Ukrainian_West 11.17
5 Polish 11.18
6 Romanian 11.52
7 Ukrainian 11.62
8 Bulgarian 13.23
9 Russian 15.08
10 Ukrainian_Northeast 15.59
11 Belorussian 17.17
12 Kargopol_Russian 19.38
13 Southwest_Finnish 19.54
14 German 19.74
15 North_Swedish 20.88
16 Erzya 21.17
17 Estonian 21.19
18 Finnish 21.43
19 French 21.53
20 Lithuanian 21.81

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 59.9% Belorussian + 40.1% Tuscan @ 3.84
2 74.1% Polish + 25.9% Ashkenazi @ 3.84
3 53.8% Lithuanian + 46.2% Tuscan @ 3.9
4 73.3% Ukrainian + 26.7% Ashkenazi @ 3.93
5 69.7% Ukrainian + 30.3% Tuscan @ 4.19
6 57% Bulgarian + 43% Belorussian @ 4.24
7 77.7% Ukrainian + 22.3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.29
8 62.4% Bulgarian + 37.6% Estonian @ 4.3
9 60.9% Romanian + 39.1% Belorussian @ 4.32
10 70.9% Serbian + 29.1% Belorussian @ 4.34
11 76% Serbian + 24% Lithuanian @ 4.44
12 63.3% Russian + 36.7% Tuscan @ 4.44
13 61.4% Serbian + 38.6% Ukrainian @ 4.44
14 54.9% Polish + 45.1% Bulgarian @ 4.44
15 75.7% Ukrainian + 24.3% South_Italian @ 4.46
16 53.8% Ukrainian + 46.2% Bulgarian @ 4.53
17 78.6% Polish + 21.4% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.57
18 50.3% Romanian + 49.7% Ukrainian @ 4.61
19 66.9% Romanian + 33.1% Lithuanian @ 4.62
20 68.5% Serbian + 31.5% Russian @ 4.64



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lithuanian +50% Tuscan @ 5.663
2 50% Belorussian +50% Bulgarian @ 5.840
3 50% Bulgarian +50% Polish @ 6.094
4 50% Romanian +50% Ukrainian @ 6.160
5 50% Serbian +50% Ukrainian @ 6.171
6 50% Polish +50% Romanian @ 6.245
7 50% Bulgarian +50% Ukrainian @ 6.260
8 50% Belorussian +50% Romanian @ 6.296
9 50% Polish +50% Serbian @ 6.375
10 50% Lithuanian +50% North_Italian @ 6.844
16110 iterations.



M Stevens said...

I would love any insight you might have here. I know my maternal grandmother's side is Dutch for several generations back. My maternal father's side is said to be English, but he died before I was born and we don't know any extended family. The man my mom says is my father is Italian for several generations back (with a couple ancestors from southern France), but I'm not seeing that in these results. He is not interested in any contact with me, so I can't even ask him to take a DNA test. Is this enough to say that he is not my biological father? I am typically perceived as mixed race, so this has been very interesting to me. Ancestry.com says I'm 8% Native American and FamilyTreeDNA (same test, just imported raw data) says 7% Mayan/Colombian and 6% South Asian. I'm feeling pretty confused about all of it. Thanks if you can help at all.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 41.85
2 Baltic 22.08
3 West_Med 13.30
4 Amerindian 8.86
5 West_Asian 7.80
6 East_Med 4.23
7 South_Asian 1.87


--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 German @ 10.216
2 Dutch @ 11.701
3 Southeast_English @ 12.564
4 Orcadian @ 13.184
5 Danish @ 13.377
6 Irish @ 13.632
7 French @ 13.638
8 Southwest_English @ 13.955
9 West_Scottish @ 14.450
10 Norwegian @ 14.557
179 iterations.



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Hungarian +50% Irish @ 10.153
2 50% Hungarian +50% West_Scottish @ 10.156
3 50% French +50% Norwegian @ 10.175
4 50% French +50% Swedish @ 10.181
5 50% Hungarian +50% Southwest_English @ 10.206
6 50% German +50% German @ 10.216
7 50% Austrian +50% Irish @ 10.240
8 50% Austrian +50% West_Scottish @ 10.289
9 50% French +50% German @ 10.319
10 50% Austrian +50% Southwest_English @ 10.388
16110 iterations.



Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Bulgarian +25% Irish @ 9.015
2 50% Irish +25% Bulgarian +25% Orcadian @ 9.082
3 50% Irish +25% Bulgarian +25% West_Scottish @ 9.118
4 50% Irish +25% Bulgarian +25% Dutch @ 9.122
5 50% Irish +25% Irish +25% Romanian @ 9.150
6 50% Irish +25% German +25% Romanian @ 9.157
7 50% Irish +25% Bulgarian +25% Danish @ 9.166
8 50% Irish +25% Dutch +25% Romanian @ 9.168
9 50% Irish +25% Greek +25% Norwegian @ 9.177
10 50% Orcadian +25% Bulgarian +25% Irish @ 9.185
972581 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Bulgarian + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 9.015
2 Bulgarian + Irish + Irish + Orcadian @ 9.082
3 Bulgarian + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 9.118
4 Bulgarian + Dutch + Irish + Irish @ 9.122
5 Irish + Irish + Irish + Romanian @ 9.150
6 German + Irish + Irish + Romanian @ 9.157
7 Bulgarian + Danish + Irish + Irish @ 9.166
8 Dutch + Irish + Irish + Romanian @ 9.168
9 Greek + Irish + Irish + Norwegian @ 9.177
10 Bulgarian + Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 9.185
11 Bulgarian + Irish + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 9.189
12 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + Romanian @ 9.191
13 Bulgarian + Dutch + Irish + West_Scottish @ 9.195
14 Bulgarian + Irish + Irish + Southeast_English @ 9.200
15 Greek + Irish + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 9.206
16 Bulgarian + German + Irish + Irish @ 9.209
17 Bulgarian + Irish + Irish + Norwegian @ 9.214
18 German + Irish + Romanian + West_Scottish @ 9.226
19 Bulgarian + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 9.235
20 Bulgarian + Dutch + Irish + Orcadian @ 9.239

Davidski said...

Well you're definitely around 8% Amerindian.

You might also be part Italian, but maybe for some reason the Oracle is confusing that for Bulgarian, Romanian and Greek?

1 Bulgarian + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 9.015

In any case, it's very unlikely that your father is mostly Italian. He might be half Italian though, or perhaps Balkan.

Davidski said...

Yes, it seems you have a lot of Balkan ancestry. But this is unlikely to be recent. It's probably due to ancient bidirectional gene flow between the Balkans and what is now Ukraine.

anen said...

I'm Mexican.
Oracle
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Amerindian 54.94
2 North_Atlantic 15.18
3 West_Med 12.38
4 Sub-Saharan 4.47
5 East_Med 4.06
6 Northeast_African 2.82
7 Siberian 1.98
8 Red_Sea 1.41
9 West_Asian 1.38
10 East_Asian 1.08
11 Oceanian 0.31

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Amerindian 35.25
2 Mayan 38.99
3 Pima 43.36
4 West_Greenlander 47.94
5 East_Greenlander 50.02
6 Karitiana 54.87
7 Spanish_Extremadura 68.36
8 Portuguese 68.57
9 Tuscan 68.59
10 North_Italian 68.64
11 Spanish_Murcia 68.75
12 Romanian 68.81
13 Bulgarian 68.94
14 Spanish_Galicia 68.97
15 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 69.3
16 Greek 69.34
17 Algerian 69.39
18 Spanish_Andalucia 69.49
19 Spanish_Valencia 69.56
20 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 69.59

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 63.8% Mayan + 36.2% Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.39
2 64.2% Mayan + 35.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 5.4
3 64% Mayan + 36% Spanish_Murcia @ 5.43
4 64.3% Mayan + 35.7% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 5.59
5 64.2% Mayan + 35.8% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 5.64
6 63.9% Mayan + 36.1% Portuguese @ 5.72
7 64.6% Mayan + 35.4% Spanish_Aragon @ 5.87
8 64.1% Mayan + 35.9% Spanish_Galicia @ 5.88
9 64.3% Mayan + 35.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 6.03
10 64.4% Mayan + 35.6% Spanish_Cantabria @ 6.07
11 64.4% Mayan + 35.6% Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.12
12 61.8% Pima + 38.2% Spanish_Andalucia @ 6.8
13 61.4% Pima + 38.6% Spanish_Extremadura @ 6.91
14 64.6% Mayan + 35.4% Southwest_French @ 6.96
15 61.8% Pima + 38.2% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 7.02
16 61.5% Pima + 38.5% Spanish_Murcia @ 7.11
17 56% Karitiana + 44% Spanish_Andalucia @ 7.13
18 62.1% Pima + 37.9% Spanish_Aragon @ 7.2
19 55.6% Karitiana + 44.4% Spanish_Extremadura @ 7.22
20 64% Mayan + 36% North_Italian @ 7.23

4-Ancestors Oracle

Using 1 population approximation:
1 North_Amerindian @ 34.409
2 Mayan @ 35.250
3 Pima @ 39.466
4 West_Greenlander @ 47.226
5 Karitiana @ 49.191
6 East_Greenlander @ 49.431
7 Tuscan @ 62.649
8 Spanish_Extremadura @ 62.652
9 North_Italian @ 62.667
10 Portuguese @ 62.863

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Karitiana +50% Spanish_Extremadura @ 9.883

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Karitiana +25% French_Basque +25% Mozabite_Berber @ 7.929

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 French_Basque + Karitiana + Karitiana + Mozabite_Berber @ 7.929

Matthew Langley said...

I'm very American... nearly all of my paper trail ancestry is in the US (or pre-US colonies) to 1600s-1700s, except a single German immigrant ancestors that came over about 1847.

Based on my paper trail I would guess I'm:

1) Roughly equal parts Irish, English, Scottish... possibly a bit more Irish + Scottish than English when combined.
2) German, the most recent immigrant ancestors, though still a 3rd great grandparent away, and some deeper german ancestry too
3) Some deep Scandinavian, probably 1700s at least though

I've had rumors of Native American though haven't confirmed a single bit, though have some brick walls on paper ancestry. I have a long US ancestry in the West (Phoenix, AZ) with many ancestors who went west from the South (some from the North as well).

The two things I'm most curious about are that in all the gedmatch DNA sets there are two things that might signify something interesting:

1) All of them I come up somewhere between .7 - 1.1% African. I'm very "white" though have many confirmed slave holder ancestors. Also on AncestryDNA's 2.0 results (which seem much improved on their 1.0 and very close to the gedmatch data sets) I come up as less than 1% (but still registering) West African - Senegal.

I've done some Chrosomome mapping and the biggest segment I found was about 6-9 cM spot that comes up African on every data set on Chromosome 18 (including your new K13)... 6-9 cM seems small but still possibly distinct enough to be more than noise? (since it comes up on all sets?) That's the biggest visible segment I've seen in the Chromosome painter.

2) I seem to come up as a higher West Asian and Near East (in K13 Red Sea it seems) than most of my ancestral makeup (English etc).

I know Native American can come up as East Asian, I'm wondering if my West Asian + Red Sea being higher might be a sign of little bits of Native American?

Any insights you can share would be appreciated :)



Kit Number: A783288

North_Atlantic 45.72%
Baltic 24.27%
West_Med 14.70%
West_Asian 7.11%
Red_Sea 3.19%
East_Med 2.28%
Northeast_African 1.04%

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Dutch @ 4.675
2 German @ 5.326
3 Orcadian @ 6.797
4 Southeast_English @ 6.870
5 Southwest_English @ 7.016
6 Irish @ 7.087
7 Danish @ 7.417
8 West_Scottish @ 8.074
9 Norwegian @ 8.940
10 Swedish @ 9.662
179 iterations.



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% German +50% Southwest_English @ 4.349
2 50% Dutch +50% German @ 4.527
3 50% German +50% Irish @ 4.606
4 50% Dutch +50% Dutch @ 4.675
5 50% German +50% Orcadian @ 4.847
6 50% French +50% Swedish @ 4.855
7 50% French +50% Norwegian @ 4.952
8 50% German +50% West_Scottish @ 4.962
9 50% Dutch +50% Southwest_English @ 5.076
10 50% German +50% Southeast_English @ 5.176
16110 iterations.


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Southwest_English +25% Hungarian +25% Irish @ 3.826
2 50% Southwest_English +25% Austrian +25% Irish @ 3.900
3 50% Swedish +25% Irish +25% Spanish_Galicia @ 3.923
4 50% Southwest_English +25% Hungarian +25% Southwest_English @ 3.935
5 50% Irish +25% Hungarian +25% Southwest_English @ 3.966
6 50% Swedish +25% Irish +25% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.973
7 50% Irish +25% Austrian +25% Southwest_English @ 3.977
8 50% Southwest_English +25% Hungarian +25% West_Scottish @ 3.982
9 50% Dutch +25% Dutch +25% French @ 4.038
10 50% Irish +25% Serbian +25% Southwest_English @ 4.068
412653 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Hungarian + Irish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.826
2 Austrian + Irish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.900
3 Irish + Spanish_Galicia + Swedish + Swedish @ 3.923
4 Hungarian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.935
5 Hungarian + Irish + Irish + Southwest_English @ 3.966
6 Irish + Spanish_Extremadura + Swedish + Swedish @ 3.973
7 Austrian + Irish + Irish + Southwest_English @ 3.977
8 Hungarian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.982
9 Dutch + Dutch + Dutch + French @ 4.038

2179973 iterations.

Davidski said...

Dutch is a very common overall Oracle result for many Americans, simply because it's the closest Old World group to the end product of all the mixing between Europeans in most parts of the US. But that differs between regions, and people from some areas end up getting Irish or Scottish even if they have documented Dutch ancestry.

If you're seeing over 1% West and/or East African in different tests, then it's likely to be genuine African or African-American admixture within a reasonable timeframe.

But no, Native American ancestry won't be interpreted as West Asian, Red Sea or East Med. Occasionally it'll come through in part as Siberian or, less likely, East Asian or Oceanian.

Matthew Langley said...

Thanks for the insight, that makes sense. Looking at the the population averages I see what you mean in Dutch. A fine line between the admixture of the Irish, Scottish, and Dutch. German comes in pretty close too.

Waiting on parents results on DNA hopefully to give me some insight on a possible African ancestor, had many slave owning southern ancestors though. I find this sort of surprise very interesting (if the possibility of the context a bit sad of course). Definitely a surprise.

Any ideas on what might be giving me a bit higher West Asian? Most of my ancestral makeup averages in at about 4% vs me at 7%. I do notice that the one possibility I see is German comes in at 7%. I guess it's possible I happened to inherit a bit more of the West Asian DNA from them? Also Irish comes in at 6% which is definitely a strong ancestral makeup for me (though mostly due to pre famine irish/scottish/gaelic, etc).

My wife who is of pretty much 100% European descent in America (with most immigrants dating back to the 19th century) comes in at about half the West Asian of me, pretty close to the English average.

The other thing I'm curious on if you have any insights is my Red Sea being 3%. The averages for all my known ancestral groups is less than 1%.

I notice that Greek, Italian, French, and Spanish seems to come in closer to those numbers, so I could have some hidden ancestral surprises. Though I have a pretty concrete paper trail for at least the last 150 years and the only immigrants being German. Of course I don't know their deeper ancestry though, so that might be part of it.

Erik Middleton said...

I Have English,Scottish,Irish and German Ancestry Does this seem pretty right for my back ground ?
Kit Number: F269390

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 48.01
2 Baltic 25.42
3 West_Med 11.79
4 East_Med 6.04
5 West_Asian 5.77
6 Siberian 1.66
7 South_Asian 1.31


--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 German @ 3.670
2 Dutch @ 3.853
3 Southeast_English @ 4.662
4 Danish @ 4.694
5 Orcadian @ 5.237
6 Irish @ 6.813
7 Norwegian @ 7.161
8 West_Scottish @ 7.282
9 Southwest_English @ 7.336
10 Swedish @ 7.999
179 iterations.



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Danish +50% German @ 2.222
2 50% German +50% Southeast_English @ 2.573
3 50% German +50% Orcadian @ 2.581
4 50% Dutch +50% German @ 3.090
5 50% German +50% West_Scottish @ 3.331
6 50% German +50% Irish @ 3.445
7 50% Dutch +50% Southeast_English @ 3.554
8 50% German +50% German @ 3.670
9 50% German +50% Southwest_English @ 3.710
10 50% Danish +50% Dutch @ 3.804
16110 iterations.



Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Danish +25% Austrian +25% West_Scottish @ 2.168
2 50% German +25% Danish +25% Southeast_English @ 2.199
3 50% Danish +25% German +25% German @ 2.222
4 50% German +25% Danish +25% Danish @ 2.222
5 50% Danish +25% Austrian +25% Orcadian @ 2.237
6 50% Danish +25% Austrian +25% Southeast_English @ 2.241
7 50% Danish +25% Austrian +25% Danish @ 2.295
8 50% Orcadian +25% Austrian +25% Danish @ 2.298
9 50% Danish +25% Austrian +25% Southwest_English @ 2.329
10 50% German +25% Danish +25% Orcadian @ 2.352
410988 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Austrian + Danish + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 2.156
2 Austrian + Danish + Danish + West_Scottish @ 2.168
3 Danish + German + German + Southeast_English @ 2.199
4 Danish + Danish + German + German @ 2.222
5 Austrian + Danish + Danish + Orcadian @ 2.237
6 Austrian + Danish + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 2.238
7 Austrian + Danish + Danish + Southeast_English @ 2.241
8 Austrian + Danish + Orcadian + Southeast_English @ 2.288
9 Austrian + Danish + Danish + Danish @ 2.295
10 Austrian + Danish + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.298
11 Austrian + Danish + Danish + Southwest_English @ 2.329
12 Austrian + Orcadian + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 2.330
13 Danish + Hungarian + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 2.334
14 Danish + German + German + Orcadian @ 2.352
15 Austrian + Danish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.353
16 Austrian + Danish + Irish + Southeast_English @ 2.381
17 Austrian + Southeast_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.383
18 Austrian + Danish + Danish + Irish @ 2.414
19 Austrian + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 2.420
20 Danish + Danish + Hungarian + West_Scottish @ 2.421

2379803 iterations.


Eurogenes K13 Oracle-x Population Fitting
Admix Results:

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 47.54
2 Baltic 25.17
3 West_Med 11.68
4 West_Asian 5.71
5 East_Med 5.99
6 Red_Sea 0.44
7 South_Asian 1.29
8 East_Asian 0.00
9 Siberian 1.64
10 Amerindian 0.01
11 Oceanian 0.52
12 Northeast_African 0.00
13 Sub-Saharan 0.00


Pct. Calc. Option 2

0 Unable to determine 0.01%
1 German 46.81%
2 West_Scottish 19.94%
3 Southeast_English 12.93%
4 Danish 10.39%
5 North_Swedish 4.18%
6 Yemenite_Jewish 3.52%
7 Evenki 1.12%
8 Southwest_Finnish 1.09%
9 Ashkenazi 0.01%
10 Sephardic_Jewish 0.00%

Total RMSD: 0.650381

CatchingAllTheSouls said...

I am of mostly English ancestry. Does this look right to you?

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Southeast_English @ 6.232
2 Southwest_English @ 6.318
3 Dutch @ 7.793
4 Orcadian @ 7.989
5 German @ 8.121
6 Danish @ 8.753
7 Irish @ 8.848
8 West_Scottish @ 9.096
9 French @ 9.361
10 Norwegian @ 12.277
179 iterations.



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% French +50% Irish @ 3.877
2 50% French +50% Orcadian @ 3.983
3 50% French +50% West_Scottish @ 4.013
4 50% French +50% Southwest_English @ 4.014
5 50% Norwegian +50% Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.200
6 50% Norwegian +50% Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.327
7 50% Spanish_Cantabria +50% Swedish @ 4.338
8 50% Danish +50% French @ 4.358
9 50% Norwegian +50% Southwest_French @ 4.440
10 50% Dutch +50% French @ 4.556
16110 iterations.



Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Danish +25% Austrian +25% French_Basque @ 2.730
2 50% Danish +25% French_Basque +25% Hungarian @ 2.837
3 50% Dutch +25% Southwest_English +25% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.837
4 50% Southwest_English +25% Dutch +25% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.896
5 50% Irish +25% Austrian +25% French_Basque @ 2.905
6 50% Southwest_English +25% Norwegian +25% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.908
7 50% Irish +25% French_Basque +25% Hungarian @ 2.928
8 50% West_Scottish +25% French_Basque +25% Hungarian @ 2.956
9 50% Dutch +25% Irish +25% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.992
10 50% Dutch +25% Southwest_English +25% Southwest_French @ 2.993
418066 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Austrian + Danish + French_Basque + Irish @ 2.706
2 Austrian + Danish + Danish + French_Basque @ 2.730
3 Austrian + Danish + French_Basque + West_Scottish @ 2.749
4 Danish + French_Basque + Hungarian + Irish @ 2.773
5 Danish + French_Basque + Hungarian + West_Scottish @ 2.774
6 Danish + Danish + French_Basque + Hungarian @ 2.837
7 Dutch + Dutch + Southwest_English + Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.837
8 Austrian + Danish + French_Basque + Orcadian @ 2.848
9 Dutch + Irish + Southwest_English + Spanish_Galicia @ 2.878
10 Dutch + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Spanish_Galicia @ 2.896
11 Dutch + Orcadian + Southwest_English + Spanish_Galicia @ 2.902
12 Austrian + French_Basque + Irish + Irish @ 2.905
13 Norwegian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Spanish_Galicia @ 2.908
14 French_Basque + Hungarian + Irish + West_Scottish @ 2.918
15 Austrian + French_Basque + Irish + Orcadian @ 2.921
16 French_Basque + Hungarian + Irish + Irish @ 2.928
17 Austrian + Dutch + French_Basque + West_Scottish @ 2.931
18 Austrian + French_Basque + Irish + West_Scottish @ 2.935
19 Danish + French_Basque + Hungarian + Orcadian @ 2.946
20 Danish + German + Southwest_English + Southwest_French @ 2.947

CatchingAllTheSouls said...

(Forgot to add)

Kit Number: FB5913

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 47.05
2 Baltic 21.22
3 West_Med 17.68
4 West_Asian 4.63
5 East_Med 3.89
6 South_Asian 2.98
7 Sub-Saharan 1.51
8 Red_Sea 1.04

Davidski said...

Minor differences like that are hard to explain. Perhaps one of your German ancestors was an ethnic German from the Balkans? Hard to say.

Davidski said...

Yep, that seems to fit.

Davidski said...

The results look very English indeed.

1 Southeast_English @ 6.232
2 Southwest_English @ 6.318

Tesmos said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
CatchingAllTheSouls said...

I figured as much but the rest of it was pretty varied as I got to 2-4 populations approximation. Then I have 1 percent Sub-Saharan and nearly 3 percent South Asian. Small but doesn't seem to be white noise..

Tesmos said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
About Time said...

What do you make of the 5-7% Georgian/Kurdish/Azeri Jewish or 13-17% Bulgarian/Romanian/Serbian? Seems like that comes in frequently for N Europeans. Either a smaller part from West Asia or interchangeably a larger part from Balkans.

What is that, and when/how did it get to N Europe?

Ayisha Johnson said...

Thank you for your update! I've posted my results on your blog before but my admixture continues to baffle me with every update :) I can't tell how these spread out populations got together... or if it's just DNA "noise"..love any insight and feedback!

I have colonial roots from as far back as I can trace-Virginia, North Carolina, New Jersey.. African + British/Irish/German background. Are the Asian/Siberian/Oceanian references Native American? 23andme have segregated South Asian from Native American in my composition.

Kit # M175953

Admix Results:

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 23.98
2 Baltic 12.59
3 West_Med 4.87
4 West_Asian 3.19
5 East_Med 1.18
6 Red_Sea 2.72
7 South_Asian 1.86
8 East_Asian 0.00
9 Siberian 0.12
10 Amerindian 0.00
11 Oceanian 0.51
12 Northeast_African 2.35
13 Sub-Saharan 46.63


Pct. Calc. Option 1

1 Yoruban 48.65%
2 West_Scottish 41.53%
3 Lithuanian 4.77%
4 Brahmin_UP 1.99%
5 Somali 1.75%
6 Saudi 1.31%
7 Austroasiatic_Ho 0.00%
8 Chuvash 0.00%
9 German 0.00%
10 Punjabi_Jat 0.00%


Pct. Calc. Option 2

0 Unable to determine 0.03%
1 Yoruban 42.96%
2 German 30.53%
3 West_Scottish 9.22%
4 Swedish 8.50%
5 Yoruban 3.77%
6 Maasai 2.86%
7 Dharkar 2.07%
8 Irish 0.04%
9 Somali 0.01%
10 Sakilli 0.00%


Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bantu_N.E. 44.86
2 Luhya 45.56
3 Mbuti_Pygmy 46.98
4 Biaka_Pygmy 48.25
5 San 48.57
6 Bantu_S.E. 51.01
7 Bantu_S.W. 52.2
8 Mozabite_Berber 53.2
9 Mandenka 54.38
10 Algerian 54.58
11 Sandawe 56.26
12 Moroccan 56.96
13 Serbian 57.58
14 Austrian 57.74
15 Spanish_Galicia 57.79
16 Hungarian 57.8
17 Romanian 57.87
18 Portuguese 57.93
19 French 58.04
20 Spanish_Extremadura 58.19

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Bantu_N.E. @ 43.803
2 Luhya @ 44.305
3 Mbuti_Pygmy @ 46.149
4 Biaka_Pygmy @ 46.211
5 San @ 48.014
6 Bantu_S.E. @ 48.087
7 Bantu_S.W. @ 48.984
8 Mandenka @ 50.532
9 Serbian @ 52.858
10 Austrian @ 53.020
179 iterations.



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Dutch +50% Yoruban @ 3.150
2 50% Dutch +50% Yoruban @ 3.150
3 50% Danish +50% Yoruban @ 3.159
4 50% Danish +50% Yoruban @ 3.159
5 50% Irish +50% Yoruban @ 3.628
6 50% Irish +50% Yoruban @ 3.628
7 50% Orcadian +50% Yoruban @ 3.680
8 50% Orcadian +50% Yoruban @ 3.680
9 50% Norwegian +50% Yoruban @ 3.801
10 50% Norwegian +50% Yoruban @ 3.801
16110 iterations.



Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Yoruban +25% Danish +25% Dutch @ 2.993
2 50% Yoruban +25% Danish +25% Dutch @ 2.993
3 50% Dutch +25% Mandenka +25% Yoruban @ 3.003
4 50% Dutch +25% Mandenka +25% Yoruban @ 3.003
5 50% Yoruban +25% Danish +25% German @ 3.062
6 50% Yoruban +25% Danish +25% German @ 3.062
7 50% Danish +25% Mandenka +25% Yoruban @ 3.088
8 50% Danish +25% Mandenka +25% Yoruban @ 3.088
9 50% Yoruban +25% German +25% Irish @ 3.107
10 50% Yoruban +25% German +25% Irish @ 3.107
390404 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Danish + Dutch + Mandenka + Yoruban @ 2.878
2 Danish + Dutch + Mandenka + Yoruban @ 2.878
3 Danish + German + Mandenka + Yoruban @ 2.983
4 Danish + German + Mandenka + Yoruban @ 2.983
5 Danish + Dutch + Yoruban + Yoruban @ 2.993
6 Danish + Dutch + Yoruban + Yoruban @ 2.993
7 Danish + Dutch + Yoruban + Yoruban @ 2.993
8 German + Irish + Mandenka + Yoruban @ 3.000
9 German + Irish + Mandenka + Yoruban @ 3.000
10 Dutch + Dutch + Mandenka + Yoruban @ 3.003
11 Dutch + Dutch + Mandenka + Yoruban @ 3.003
12 Danish + Mandenka + Swedish + Yoruban @ 3.015
13 Danish + Mandenka + Swedish + Yoruban @ 3.015
14 Dutch + Irish + Mandenka + Yoruban @ 3.017
15 Dutch + Irish + Mandenka + Yoruban @ 3.017
16 German + Mandenka + West_Scottish + Yoruban @ 3.036
17 German + Mandenka + West_Scottish + Yoruban @ 3.036
18 Irish + Mandenka + Swedish + Yoruban @ 3.043
19 Irish + Mandenka + Swedish + Yoruban @ 3.043
20 Danish + German + Yoruban + Yoruban @ 3.062






MixedRoots said...

Great question, why is there no response?

Chad Rohlfsen said...

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 49.19
2 Baltic 23.52
3 West_Med 13.43
4 East_Med 7.8
5 West_Asian 2.98
6 Siberian 1.44
7 Oceanian 0.85
8 Red_Sea 0.65
9 South_Asian 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southeast_English 3.49
2 Orcadian 5.49
3 Danish 5.56
4 Dutch 5.72
5 Southwest_English 5.85
6 German 5.92
7 West_Scottish 6.93
8 Irish 7.12
9 Norwegian 8.82
10 Swedish 9.77
11 French 10.3
12 North_Swedish 14.49
13 Austrian 15.63
14 Hungarian 16.91
15 Spanish_Cataluna 17.25
16 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 18.43
17 Spanish_Galicia 18.84
18 Portuguese 18.86
19 Southwest_French 18.92
20 Spanish_Cantabria 19.27

Chad Rohlfsen said...

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96.8% Southeast_English + 3.2%Yemenite_Jewish @ 2.68
2 95.1% Southeast_English + 4.9% Ashkenazi @ 2.82
3 97% Southeast_English + 3% Saudi @ 2.86
4 96.7% Southeast_English + 3.3% Egyptian @ 2.88
5 96.8% Southeast_English + 3.2%Lebanese_Druze @ 2.92
6 96.8% Southeast_English + 3.2% Palestinian @ 2.92
7 96.9% Southeast_English + 3.1% Samaritan @ 2.94
8 96% Southeast_English + 4% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.94
9 97% Southeast_English + 3% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.95
10 96.9% Southeast_English + 3.1% Bedouin @ 2.96
11 92.1% Southeast_English + 7.9% Serbian @ 2.98
12 96.9% Southeast_English + 3.1% Jordanian @ 2.99
13 96.5% Southeast_English + 3.5% Algerian @ 3.01
14 94.3% Southeast_English + 5.7% Tuscan @ 3.02
15 96.8% Southeast_English + 3.2% Cyprian @ 3.02
16 94% Southeast_English + 6% Bulgarian @ 3.02
17 93.4% Southeast_English + 6.6% Romanian @ 3.03
18 98.2% Southeast_English + 1.8% Evenki @ 3.05
19 98.1% Southeast_English + 1.9% Dolgan @ 3.05
20 96% Southeast_English + 4% South_Italian @ 3.05

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Southeast_English +50% Southeast_English @ 3.847
2 50% German +50% Southeast_English @ 4.689
3 50% Danish +50% Southeast_English @ 4.777
4 50% Orcadian +50% Southeast_English @ 4.858
5 50% Dutch +50% Southeast_English @ 4.875
6 50% Southeast_English +50% Southwest_English @ 5.161
7 50% German +50% Southwest_English @ 5.277
8 50% French +50% Norwegian @ 5.461
9 50% German +50% Orcadian @ 5.563
10 50% Danish +50% French @ 5.605
16110 iterations.



Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Southeast_English +25% Southeast_English +25% Southeast_English @ 3.847
2 50% Southeast_English +25% German +25% Southeast_English @ 3.956
3 50% Southeast_English +25% French +25% Norwegian @ 4.088
4 50% Southeast_English +25% Danish +25% French @ 4.093
5 50% Danish +25% French +25% Southeast_English @ 4.122
6 50% Southeast_English +25% French +25% Swedish @ 4.130
7 50% Danish +25% Spanish_Valencia +25% Swedish @ 4.201
8 50% Southeast_English +25% Danish +25% Southeast_English @ 4.227
9 50% Southeast_English +25% Dutch +25% Southeast_English @ 4.227
10 50% Southeast_English +25% French +25% Orcadian @ 4.238
468159 iterations.

Chad Rohlfsen said...


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 3.847
2 German + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 3.956
3 French + Norwegian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 4.088
4 Danish + French + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 4.093
5 Danish + Danish + French + Southeast_English @ 4.122
6 French + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Swedish @ 4.130
7 Danish + Danish + Spanish_Valencia + Swedish @ 4.201
8 Danish + French + Orcadian + Southeast_English @ 4.210
9 Danish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 4.227
10 Dutch + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 4.227
11 French + Orcadian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 4.238
12 Danish + Southeast_English + Spanish_Cataluna + Swedish @ 4.246
13 Danish + Danish + Spanish_Cataluna + Swedish @ 4.248
14 Danish + Danish + Norwegian + Spanish_Valencia @ 4.284
15 Danish + Danish + Norwegian + Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.284
16 French + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 4.289
17 Orcadian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 4.297
18 Danish + French + Norwegian + Southeast_English @ 4.310
19 Danish + Norwegian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.326
20 Danish + North_Swedish + Spanish_Valencia + West_Scottish @ 4.341

Pct. Calc. Option 1

1 Southeast_English 94.31%
2 Yemenite_Jewish 2.92%
3 East_Finnish 1.88%
4 Selkup 0.60%
5 Spanish_Murcia 0.24%
6 Portuguese 0.05%
7 Serbian 0.00%
8 Tuscan 0.00%
9 Ashkenazi 0.00%
10 North_Italian 0.00%

Pct. Calc. Option 2

1 Southeast_English 95.98%
2 Yemenite_Jewish 2.39%
3 Selkup 0.71%
4 Austrian 0.61%
5 Ashkenazi 0.11%
6 Danish 0.08%
7 Egyptian 0.08%
8 French 0.02%
9 Algerian 0.01%
10 Portuguese 0.00%


I am approximately 9/16 British/Irish (mostly English), 1/8 Danish, 1/8 NE German (Pomerania), 1/16 German/Bavarian, 5/64, The rest is probably bits of other places and Jewish, I'm not sure if any Jewish is included in the lines above. I am curious if my grandfather had something more eastern in his ancestry. My Siberian seems high. I also score good chunks of Amerindian and East Asian in the chromosome view. I am not sure why it disappears in this view. I do know that I could drop my grandfather off in the Urals and no one would think he was out of place. What do you think Davidski?

About Time said...

Chad, is your eastern looking grandfather the Pomeranian? Part of my ancestry is from there and I'm curious about that population. Part Baltic, Slavic, who knows what else then German and I think many Dutch and Jewish communities moved there.

If someone could test the descendants in Brazil, could be an interesting microcosm of Baltic Europe from that period.

Chad Rohlfsen said...

that 5/64 should be Alsatian.

@About Time

My eastern looking grandpa is supposedly half Danish and half English/Scottish. That's where I am confused. He is identical to one of Coon's supposed 'ladogan' types. The one young Siberian kid with the slicked back hair. I can only go back to the mid to late 1800's in Denmark. It's all pretty sketchy from there. I'm not sure where they came from before that. They immigrated to Iowa around 1900. Scoring 3x the average of those populations in Siberian, Amerindian and East Asian really has me wondering who they were.

Chad Rohlfsen said...

I'm going to talk my dad into testing to see where his Siberian and Asian is at.

Chad Rohlfsen said...

http://rugiland.narod.ru/index/0-1246
scroll down to ugrian speakers, figure 3. identical to my grandpa if you take away his freckles and add brown eyes.

Chad Rohlfsen said...

although, i guess calculator effect could be the cause. ill need my dad to test in order to find out.

About Time said...

Well, it looks like you get Siberian 1.44. The Eurogenes k13 averages show for Siberian %'s: North Swedish 3.16, Norwegian 1.11, Orcadian 1.05, Swedish 0.83. Maybe he just had some Swedish or Norwegian.

That guy in the picture wouldn't stand out in a crowd IMO. People's stereotypes of how types from each country are "supposed" to look are sometimes wrong.

Tesmos said...

About time, what do you think about my results?

About Time said...

I think the Amerindian/Siberian (1.01% Amerindian in your case) showing up is mostly trace Paleo-European. Same for Chad Rolfsen. Amerindian shows up 0.99% even for Irish in Eurogenes K13.

What is much more interesting: I would really like to know why so many Northern Europeans get 5-7% Assyrian/AzeriJewish/Armenian/Georgian in their results.

I suspect this is nothing recent, because West Asian and East Med shows up in Orcadians but peaks in Austrians, Hungarians, and Germans. What is this?

Someone could build a database (or use one they already have) for IBD analysis to see whether this is systematic actual admixture in some pops and if so, how recent.

Chad Rohlfsen said...

Yes, I know that the features occur across Northern Europe. The average for Danish and English people are way lower than what I score. In the chromosome mode I get close to 1% East Asian and Amerindian too. I wouldn't be surprised if my Danish family came from somewhere else, probably more northeast in Europe. I get Finnish scores on 23andme and FTDNA, so I may try to research that line more. Records of anyone in Denmark has evaded me so far.

About Time said...

I would guess Sweden or Norway. Or just from a part of Denmark where Siberian % was a little higher locally maybe. I don't think it's likely to be anything exotic in a recent sense, unless there was some Finnish, Russian, or maybe Greenlander ancestry.

I see what you are thinking of, but really the face of the guy you showed from the old portraits just looks generically Northern European. In America he might be considered sort of "Irish" looking. The old typology in those charts was based too much on aesthetic preferences and perceptions of intelligence or aristocratic manners in the 19th century. Not necessarily correct or relevant at all in terms of genomic components in k13.

If anything, the contrasting idealized look in N Europe (insofar as that really exists) with a more Roman nose and sculpted or "aristocratic seeming" facial relief might even be related to the West Asian or East Med mixture (whatever and whenever that came from).

Tesmos said...

Yeah, the Amerindian/Siberian(Siberian=0.54%) is Ancient like Paleo-European and not recent admixture, i don't have any high Amerindian scores on other calculators.

There is a reason behind it but i can't remember why many North Euro's have 5-7% West-Asian. Not because it's recent admixture but it has something to do with the Oracle. Do you think that these results are accurate for a Northern Dutch/German person tough?

Chad Rohlfsen said...

Of course 1.44 doesn't suggest recent relatives from Siberia. I think that there may be something to the Finnish results and cousins on 23andme. Maybe one of my grandfather's grandparents are from there. Something like that would be my best guess.

Onur said...

Barak, are you still preparing the Excel file of the population averages or did you give it up?

whatever5000 said...

Very confused....I'm French Acadian/English on maternal side, Paternal side is "Cajun" and unknown. Can I assume this calculator is correct in identifying the unknown ancestry? Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Using 1 population approximation:
1 German @ 6.572
2 Austrian @ 9.602
3 Dutch @ 9.637
4 Southeast_English @ 10.941
5 Hungarian @ 11.085
6 French @ 11.093
7 Danish @ 12.513
8 Orcadian @ 12.671
9 Swedish @ 12.970
10 Norwegian @ 13.143
179 iterations.



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Austrian +50% Southeast_English @ 3.269
2 50% Hungarian +50% Southeast_English @ 3.418
3 50% Hungarian +50% Southwest_English @ 3.844
4 50% Austrian +50% Southwest_English @ 3.903
5 50% Southwest_Finnish +50% Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.174
6 50% Austrian +50% Dutch @ 4.410
7 50% Austrian +50% Orcadian @ 4.464
8 50% Orcadian +50% Serbian @ 4.542
9 50% Southwest_Finnish +50% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.611
10 50% Serbian +50% Southwest_English @ 4.655
16110 iterations.



Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Southeast_English +25% Belorussian +25% North_Italian @ 1.989
2 50% Southeast_English +25% Spanish_Valencia +25% Ukrainian_Northeast @ 2.184
3 50% Southeast_English +25% Estonian +25% North_Italian @ 2.250
4 50% Southeast_English +25% Lithuanian +25% North_Italian @ 2.258
5 50% German +25% Polish +25% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.271
6 50% German +25% Belorussian +25% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.291
7 50% German +25% Belorussian +25% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.305
8 50% German +25% Polish +25% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.362
9 50% Southeast_English +25% Portuguese +25% Ukrainian_Northeast @ 2.368
10 50% Southeast_English +25% Spanish_Cataluna +25% Ukrainian_Northeast @ 2.425
376491 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Belorussian + German + Southeast_English + Spanish_Valencia @ 1.801
2 Belorussian + German + Southeast_English + Spanish_Andalucia @ 1.978
3 Belorussian + North_Italian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 1.989
4 Belorussian + North_Italian + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 2.092
5 German + Southeast_English + Spanish_Valencia + Ukrainian_Northeast @ 2.110
6 Danish + German + Spanish_Valencia + Ukrainian @ 2.145
7 Belorussian + German + Southeast_English + Spanish_Murcia @ 2.162
8 German + Russian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Valencia @ 2.172
9 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Spanish_Valencia + Ukrainian_Northeast @ 2.184
10 Dutch + German + Polish + Spanish_Valencia @ 2.203
11 Belorussian + North_Italian + Orcadian + Southeast_English @ 2.222
12 German + Southeast_English + Spanish_Cataluna + Ukrainian @ 2.228
13 Dutch + Southeast_English + Spanish_Valencia + Ukrainian_Northeast @ 2.230
14 Belorussian + Danish + North_Italian + Southeast_English @ 2.249
15 Estonian + North_Italian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 2.250
16 Austrian + Southeast_English + Southwest_Finnish + Spanish_Valencia @ 2.251
17 Lithuanian + North_Italian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 2.258
18 Belorussian + German + Southeast_English + Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.270
19 German + German + Polish + Spanish_Valencia @ 2.271
20 Belorussian + German + Southeast_English + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.279


whatever5000 said...

Also:

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 41.12
2 Baltic 27.18
3 West_Med 15.83
4 East_Med 8.58
5 West_Asian 4.51
6 South_Asian 1.41
7 Northeast_African 1.06
8 Sub-Saharan 0.18
9 Amerindian 0.12
10 Red_Sea 0.01

Heraus said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Heraus said...

SW French from the Pyrenees (Gascon ethnicity, home area : Béarn, more specifically East Béarn, some 70km from modern-day Basque-speaking lands)

Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 44.37
2 West_Med 30.41
3 Baltic 13.43
4 East_Med 10.67
5 Amerindian 1.12


Using 1 population approximation:
1 Southwest_French @ 3.566
2 Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.760
3 Spanish_Aragon @ 6.169
4 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 7.255
5 Spanish_Cataluna @ 7.260
6 Spanish_Valencia @ 7.417
7 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 7.929
8 Spanish_Murcia @ 9.264
9 Spanish_Galicia @ 9.265
10 Spanish_Andalucia @ 9.579

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Southwest_French +50% Southwest_French @ 3.566
2 50% Southwest_French +50% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.854
3 50% Southwest_French +50% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.884
4 50% Southwest_French +50% Spanish_Valencia @ 4.398
5 50% Southwest_French +50% Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.532
6 50% Southwest_French +50% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.715
7 50% Spanish_Cantabria +50% Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.760
8 50% Southwest_French +50% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 4.954
9 50% Spanish_Aragon +50% Spanish_Cantabria @ 5.054
10 50% Southwest_French +50% Spanish_Murcia @ 5.394

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.340
2 Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.521
3 Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Southwest_French @ 3.566
4 Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.640
5 French_Basque + Sardinian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 3.664
6 Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.686
7 Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.710
8 French_Basque + Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.716
9 French_Basque + Southwest_French + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.799
10 French_Basque + Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.804
11 Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.854
12 Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.855
13 Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.874
14 Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Spanish_Cantabria + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.884
15 French_Basque + Southwest_French + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.884
16 Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.896
17 French_Basque + Southwest_French + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.903
18 Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.913
19 Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Spanish_Cantabria + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.932
20 French_Basque + Portuguese + Southwest_French + Southwest_French @ 3.941


----

I won't make the comments unreadable with more data. Basically :

- My best approximations are my fellow SW French people (that I suppose are from the 2012 study about Basque people and their neighbours : Gascon sub-ethnicities from Chalosse, Béarn and Bigorre were sampled).

- Then come the usual Iberians such as Cantabrian and Aragonese people (known to have been Basque-speaking) then Castillans.

- The French Basque sample used in most studies seems to be very specific as it only appears when the algorithm is forced into finding 3 other samples to pair with it.

IMO, it is either inbred or surprisingly "pure" (read : the French Basques completely escaped the latest migratory waves i.e. Indo-Europeans ; on that aspect, any theories about that "Caucasian" component popping now and then in ADMIXTURE studies that both Sardinians and Basque people lack ? Indo-Europeans ?).

In other projects, when a Spanish Basque sample is included, they are generally my best approximation.

Conclusion :

Oracle results are brilliant when it comes to guess me.

kjonz34 said...

I really don't know how to decode a lot of the abbr. for the regions. As you can tell I'm kind of lost trying to interpret these results. Any help would be appreciated.
# Population Percent
1 Sub-Saharan 64.90
2 North_Atlantic 11.37
3 Baltic 6.01
4 Amerindian 5.10
5 West_Med 4.94
6 Northeast_African 4.68
7 East_Med 1.99
8 Red_Sea 1.01


--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Biaka_Pygmy @ 25.961
2 Bantu_S.E. @ 26.172
3 Bantu_N.E. @ 26.214
4 Luhya @ 26.389
5 Bantu_S.W. @ 26.812
6 Mandenka @ 28.148
7 Mbuti_Pygmy @ 32.219
8 Yoruban @ 33.721
9 Yoruban @ 33.721
10 San @ 38.551
179 iterations.



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Mozabite_Berber +50% Yoruban @ 21.484
2 50% Mozabite_Berber +50% Yoruban @ 21.484
3 50% Spanish_Galicia +50% Yoruban @ 21.506
4 50% Spanish_Galicia +50% Yoruban @ 21.506
5 50% Portuguese +50% Yoruban @ 21.506
6 50% Portuguese +50% Yoruban @ 21.506
7 50% Serbian +50% Yoruban @ 21.566
8 50% Serbian +50% Yoruban @ 21.566
9 50% Romanian +50% Yoruban @ 21.635
10 50% Romanian +50% Yoruban @ 21.635
16110 iterations.



Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Mandenka +25% Mandenka +25% Southeast_English @ 5.752
2 50% Mandenka +25% Dutch +25% Mandenka @ 5.868
3 50% Mandenka +25% German +25% Mandenka @ 5.896
4 50% Mandenka +25% French +25% Mandenka @ 5.911
5 50% Mandenka +25% Bantu_S.W. +25% Southeast_English @ 5.935
6 50% Mandenka +25% Mandenka +25% Orcadian @ 5.955
7 50% Mandenka +25% Mandenka +25% Southwest_English @ 6.017
8 50% Mandenka +25% Bantu_S.W. +25% French @ 6.020
9 50% Mandenka +25% Bantu_S.W. +25% Dutch @ 6.043
10 50% Mandenka +25% Bantu_S.E. +25% Southeast_English @ 6.065
507764 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Mandenka + Mandenka + Mandenka + Southeast_English @ 5.752
2 Dutch + Mandenka + Mandenka + Mandenka @ 5.868
3 German + Mandenka + Mandenka + Mandenka @ 5.896
4 French + Mandenka + Mandenka + Mandenka @ 5.911
5 Bantu_S.W. + Mandenka + Mandenka + Southeast_English @ 5.935
6 Mandenka + Mandenka + Mandenka + Orcadian @ 5.955
7 Mandenka + Mandenka + Mandenka + Southwest_English @ 6.017
8 Bantu_S.W. + French + Mandenka + Mandenka @ 6.020
9 Bantu_S.W. + Dutch + Mandenka + Mandenka @ 6.043
10 Bantu_S.E. + Mandenka + Mandenka + Southeast_English @ 6.065
11 Bantu_S.E. + Mandenka + Southeast_English + Yoruban @ 6.066
12 Bantu_S.E. + Mandenka + Southeast_English + Yoruban @ 6.066
13 Danish + Mandenka + Mandenka + Mandenka @ 6.072
14 Bantu_S.W. + German + Mandenka + Mandenka @ 6.085
15 Bantu_S.E. + French + Mandenka + Yoruban @ 6.113
16 Bantu_S.E. + French + Mandenka + Yoruban @ 6.113
17 Irish + Mandenka + Mandenka + Mandenka @ 6.119
18 Bantu_S.W. + Mandenka + Southeast_English + Yoruban @ 6.123
19 Bantu_S.W. + Mandenka + Southeast_English + Yoruban @ 6.123
20 Bantu_S.W. + Mandenka + Mandenka + Orcadian @ 6.136

Michael Clarke said...

Dear Davidski'

My ancestry (paper) is entirely Irish from County Dublin, going back to the mid 18th century. The admixture results below raise a few questions and I would be very grateful if you could find time to answer them.

1. Could "West Scottish" be a proxy for Northern Irish? My male haplotype is R1b1b2a1a2f2 (the O'Neill haplotype).
2. Dublin was a Viking foundation and remained Norse until the Normans took over in the 12th century. Could that account for the Danish and Orcadian and Norwegian components?
3. Henry II made Dublin a "colony" of Bristol and there was considerable immigration from there. Presumably that would account for the South Western English Component?
4. Can you offer any explanation for the strong South East England element. Is it just noise?

Many thanks for your time and the fascinating work you do.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 37.18
2 Atlantic 29.63
3 Eastern_Euro 10.06
4 Baltic 8.47
5 West_Med 8.38
6 West_Asian 4.05
7 South_Asian 0.77
8 Amerindian 0.74
9 East_Med 0.73

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 West_Scottish 2.83
2 Danish 2.89
3 Southeast_English 2.98
4 Irish 3.48
5 Southwest_English 3.96
6 Orcadian 4.39
7 Dutch 4.89
8 German 7.31
9 Norwegian 7.6
10 Swedish 9.46
11 North_Swedish 11.98
12 French 12.34
13 Southwest_Finnish 17.02
14 Austrian 18.63
15 Hungarian 19.41
16 Spanish_Cataluna 19.69
17 Spanish_Galicia 20.16
18 Finnish 20.4
19 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 21.05
20 Portuguese 21.06

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 67% West_Scottish + 33% Southwest_English @ 2.35
2 66.7% Danish + 33.3% Southwest_English @ 2.43
3 68.2% Southeast_English + 31.8% Orcadian @ 2.46
4 88.4% Orcadian + 11.6% French_Basque @ 2.5
5 55.5% West_Scottish + 44.5% Southeast_English @ 2.54
6 97.6% West_Scottish + 2.4% Sardinian @ 2.56
7 53.6% Danish + 46.4% Southeast_English @ 2.58
8 91.5% West_Scottish + 8.5% French @ 2.6
9 95.1% West_Scottish + 4.9% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.64
10 95.5% West_Scottish + 4.5% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.64
11 95.5% West_Scottish + 4.5% Portuguese @ 2.65
12 98% West_Scottish + 2% Lezgin @ 2.66
13 98.4% West_Scottish + 1.6% Burusho @ 2.67
14 95.9% West_Scottish + 4.1% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.67
15 98.2% West_Scottish + 1.8% Chechen @ 2.67
16 95.6% West_Scottish + 4.4% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.68
17 98.3% West_Scottish + 1.7% Balkar @ 2.68
18 96.3% West_Scottish + 3.7% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.68
19 98% West_Scottish + 2% Tadjik @ 2.69
20 96.7% West_Scottish + 3.3% North_Italian @ 2.69

Davidski said...

Yes, the West Scottish result is likely to be a proxy for Northern Irish.

The differences between Ireland and the UK aren't particularly great, so whenever someone from that area falls out of range of their own ethnic group, even slightly, they'll get the next best thing from nearby.

Also, the Southeast English result just means that your Irish ancestry can be interpreted as 68.2% Southeast_English + 31.8% Orcadian @ 2.46. It's just one of the possible combinations and might not actually mean recent English ancestry.

Following on from that, you might well have some Scandinavian ancestry, but the Danish result there may or may not be direct proof of that. Looking for minor distant ancestry from somewhere specific within Northern Europe, like Scandinavia, is tricky, and you'll need to use the chromosome paintings as well as genealogical hits with Scandinavians to get anywhere.

Michael Clarke said...

Many thanks.
My next task is obviously to learn how the chromosome paintings work.

K Dub said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ron Bentz said...

I'm sorry if this has been covered. What is the difference between Pct. Calc Option 1 and Option 2?. And why is 2 the default?. My German in option 2 is 52% in option 1 Jumps to 83%. In option 2 my second group is West Scottish in option one that leaves and I get Ukranian West.

Lee said...

My ancestry is overwhelmingly North European (British & German), though I do have some Sub-Saharan African ancestry on my father's side. I have always thought that my African ancestors were most certainly Angolan; however, using the Oracle feature I consistently get Yoruba matches. I've tried various tests and I never get Central African results (which I assume Angolan would be), I always get Yoruban matches. Were various West & West-Central African populations sampled? Would it be possible that Angolan genes could show up as Yoruban? Not that I mind having Yoruba ancestry at all, I'm just trying to match genetics with historical records.

Davidski said...

I don't have any Angolan samples, but Angola is located in southwestern Africa, and isn't too far away from Nigeria, which is where the Yoruba come from. So basically what's happening is that the Yoruba are the closest reference set available to your African ancestry.

Lee said...

Oh, I see. Thank you very much!

JSclark said...

Thank you for helping so many of us with questions.

Using the K12 model, it came up with this:

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 39.65
2 Baltic 17.39
3 West_Med 14.21
4 Amerindian 12.42
5 East_Med 5.39
6 West_Asian 5.35
7 South_Asian 1.44
8 Sub-Saharan 1.11
9 Red_Sea 0.98
10 Siberian 0.97
11 Oceanian 0.61
12 East_Asian 0.48

If I continue to oracle, it has the following information:
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 39.65
2 Baltic 17.39
3 West_Med 14.21
4 Amerindian 12.42
5 East_Med 5.39
6 West_Asian 5.35
7 South_Asian 1.44
8 Sub-Saharan 1.11
9 Red_Sea 0.98
10 Siberian 0.97
11 Oceanian 0.61
12 East_Asian 0.48

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 French 15.67
2 German 16.8
3 Southeast_English 17.47
4 Dutch 17.72
5 Orcadian 18.19
6 Southwest_English 18.46
7 Danish 18.57
8 Irish 18.57
9 West_Scottish 18.97
10 Spanish_Cataluna 19.64
11 Portuguese 19.75
12 Spanish_Galicia 19.87
13 Austrian 19.9
14 Norwegian 19.94
15 Hungarian 20.05
16 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 20.13
17 Swedish 20.57
18 Spanish_Murcia 20.72
19 Spanish_Extremadura 20.75
20 Spanish_Cantabria 20.88

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.7% Southeast_English + 15.3% Mayan @ 4.71
2 85.3% Southeast_English + 14.7% Pima @ 5.05
3 85.3% German + 14.7% Mayan @ 5.19
4 83.4% Southeast_English + 16.6% North_Amerindian @ 5.23
5 84% Southwest_English + 16% Mayan @ 5.29
6 86.8% French + 13.2% Pima @ 5.38
7 88% French + 12% Karitiana @ 5.38
8 84.6% Southwest_English + 15.4% Pima @ 5.49
9 86.7% Southeast_English + 13.3% Karitiana @ 5.55
10 82.6% Southwest_English + 17.4% North_Amerindian @ 5.56
11 85.9% German + 14.1% Pima @ 5.62
12 86.4% French + 13.6% Mayan @ 5.62
13 87.3% German + 12.7% Karitiana @ 5.8
14 86.1% Southwest_English + 13.9% Karitiana @ 6.05
15 84.8% Dutch + 15.2% Mayan @ 6.08
16 85.3% French + 14.7% North_Amerindian @ 6.21
17 84.3% German + 15.7% North_Amerindian @ 6.28
18 84.5% Orcadian + 15.5% Mayan @ 6.35
19 85.4% Dutch + 14.6% Pima @ 6.47
20 84.3% Danish + 15.7% Mayan @ 6.69


Can you determine how long ago the Native American ancestry might be based on these numbers? Is it a statistically significant amount? It seems I am mostly European with perhaps one relative (great-grandparent perhaps) who was Native American/Mexican. Any insight appreciated. Thanks

JSclark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ryan Dell'Erba said...

Known ancestry: 75% British Isles + 25% South East Italian

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 41.57
2 West_Med 17.2
3 Baltic 16.43
4 West_Asian 12.82
5 East_Med 5.87
6 South_Asian 1.48
7 Red_Sea 1.32
8 East_Asian 1.21
9 Amerindian 0.88
10 Northeast_African 0.69
11 Siberian 0.54


Oracle Calc. 1:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.3% Southwest_English + 18.7% Abhkasian @ 4.13
2 80.4% Southwest_English + 19.6% Georgian @ 4.15
3 80.2% Southwest_English + 19.8% Armenian @ 4.32
4 77.1% Southwest_English + 22.9% Turkish @ 4.41
5 78% Southwest_English + 22% Balkar @ 4.54
6 80% Southwest_English + 20% Kurdish @ 4.81
7 78.7% Southwest_English + 21.3% Adygei @ 4.89
8 77.5% Southwest_English + 22.5% Kumyk @ 4.92
9 80.8% Southwest_English + 19.2% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.99
10 79.1% Southwest_English + 20.9% North_Ossetian @ 5.05
11 80.5% Southwest_English + 19.5% Azeri_Jewish @ 5.29
12 80.6% Southwest_English + 19.4% Iranian @ 5.31
13 81.1% Southwest_English + 18.9% Assyrian @ 5.35
14 81.4% Southeast_English + 18.6% Georgian @ 5.43
15 82.2% Southeast_English + 17.8% Abhkasian @ 5.45
16 79.3% Irish + 20.7% Armenian @ 5.54
17 78.6% West_Scottish + 21.4% Armenian @ 5.55
18 76% Irish + 24% Turkish @ 5.58
19 75.2% West_Scottish + 24.8% Turkish @ 5.63
20 78.3% Southwest_English + 21.7% Turkmen @ 5.67

Is this a definite indication of something significant from the Caucuses/West Asia? I ask because I have reason to suspect I have some fairly significant Jewish ancestry in the Italian part of my heritage. Could this be an indicator of that?

Bernita Allen said...

Can you please tell me what does this mean to me? I appreciate your help.
Population
North_Atlantic 14.22%
Baltic 4.92%
West_Med 3.09%
West_Asian 0.47%
East_Med -
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 2.17%
East_Asian 0.63%
Siberian 0.11%
Amerindian 0.95%
Oceanian 0.30%
Northeast_African 4.23%
Sub-Saharan 68.92%

Unknown said...

I'm a bit over half British Isles ancestry, with about a quarter Eastern European and about an eighth Frisian, with a bit of non-Frisian Dutch, French, and rumored Hungarian and Czech. I'm also one of the many Americans who have stories of Native American ancestry, but I've yet to discover any evidence of it. 23andme also identified a small bit of Eastern African on chromosome 3, verified through Doug McDonald and nearly every test on Gedmatch indicates SSA ancestry on that particular segment, so I'm pretty confident it's real. I am, however, a bit confused as to why Swedish and other Fenno-Scandian ethnicities score so high on this particular test, when I know I have no recent Fenno-Scandian ancestry:

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 43.60
2 Baltic 31.14
3 West_Med 13.07
4 West_Asian 6.50
5 East_Med 1.37
6 Red_Sea 1.34
7 South_Asian 0.90
8 East_Asian 0.65
9 Siberian 0.20
10 Amerindian 0.51
11 Oceanian 0.00
12 Northeast_African 0.31
13 Sub-Saharan 0.42

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Swedish @ 6.112
2 Dutch @ 6.978
3 Norwegian @ 7.074
4 German @ 7.658
5 North_Swedish @ 8.989
6 Orcadian @ 10.418
7 Danish @ 10.432
8 Irish @ 11.061
9 Southeast_English @ 11.472
10 West_Scottish @ 12.240
179 iterations.



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Polish +50% West_Scottish @ 4.713
2 50% German +50% North_Swedish @ 4.917
3 50% Irish +50% Polish @ 4.940
4 50% Dutch +50% North_Swedish @ 4.942
5 50% Polish +50% Southwest_English @ 5.048
6 50% Southwest_English +50% Southwest_Finnish @ 5.058
7 50% German +50% Swedish @ 5.447
8 50% Ukrainian_West +50% West_Scottish @ 5.623
9 50% Orcadian +50% Polish @ 5.706
10 50% Irish +50% Southwest_Finnish @ 5.716
16110 iterations.



Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Southwest_English +25% Dutch +25% Lithuanian @ 2.874
2 50% Dutch +25% Lithuanian +25% Southwest_English @ 2.929
3 50% Southwest_English +25% German +25% Lithuanian @ 3.049
4 50% Irish +25% Dutch +25% Russian @ 3.056
5 50% Irish +25% Dutch +25% Lithuanian @ 3.057
6 50% Irish +25% German +25% Lithuanian @ 3.095
7 50% Southwest_English +25% Russian +25% Swedish @ 3.128
8 50% Irish +25% Russian +25% Swedish @ 3.147
9 50% Southwest_English +25% Lithuanian +25% Swedish @ 3.148
10 50% Dutch +25% Irish +25% Lithuanian @ 3.158
355775 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Dutch + Irish + Lithuanian + Southwest_English @ 2.798
2 Dutch + Lithuanian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 2.874
3 German + Irish + Lithuanian + Southwest_English @ 2.910
4 Dutch + Dutch + Lithuanian + Southwest_English @ 2.929
5 Irish + Russian + Southwest_English + Swedish @ 2.979
6 Dutch + Lithuanian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.011
7 Dutch + Lithuanian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.043
8 German + Lithuanian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.049
9 Dutch + Irish + Irish + Russian @ 3.056
10 Dutch + Irish + Irish + Lithuanian @ 3.057
11 German + Lithuanian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.061
12 Irish + Norwegian + Russian + Southwest_English @ 3.086
13 German + Irish + Irish + Lithuanian @ 3.095
14 Russian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Swedish @ 3.128
15 Irish + Irish + Russian + Swedish @ 3.147
16 Lithuanian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Swedish @ 3.148
17 Russian + Southwest_English + Swedish + West_Scottish @ 3.152
18 Dutch + Dutch + Irish + Lithuanian @ 3.158
19 Dutch + Norwegian + Russian + Southwest_English @ 3.161
20 Irish + Irish + Norwegian + Russian @ 3.163

I also find it interesting that the East Asian scores relatively high for a person of primarily northern European ancestry... could it be ancient admixture from Asian peoples invading Eastern Europe? Is that what could possibly be dragging the oracle more towards Scandinavia? I would think that the oracle would be dragged further south, as per the SSA ancestry.

Matthew Langley said...

So I have the results of both of may parents DNA now, definitely lends supporting data towards some of my theories. I believe some of my middle eastern dna traces come from my dad's German ancestry as I suspected (since his came up much more like that), he came up with north (northeast in this case) African, West Asian, South Asian, etc...

Of interest my mom came up with 1.12 % northeast african, no sub-saharan... though when I do chromosome painting the spot on my 18th chromosome that was about 6-8 cM sub-saharan is also there on her, though roughly about 17 cM.

On gedmatch I then did admixture percentages per chrosome and saw some interesting results that confuses me. I'm not sure how it works so I may be misunderstanding how it does what it does but my per-chrosome results on my mom come up with more sub-saharan than north east african, while when I run the overall admixture it nulls out sub-saharan and only shows northeast african.

I multiplied the percentages of each chrosome by the chrosome's snp values to get the snps matched for both sub-saharan and northeast african then divided the total snps against that to come up with percentages:

Northeast African: 0.52%
Sub-saharan African: 0.79%

Is there a reason why the overall admixture vs admixture per chrosome would come up with such different results? Or am I missing something?

joe smith said...

BTW, Joe Smith is not my real name. Haha

Davidski, here are my results from Eurogenes K-13

1 North_Atlantic 10.07
2 Baltic 4.51
3 West_Med 3.28
4 West_Asian 0.00
5 East_Med 2.98
6 Red_Sea 1.86
7 South_Asian 2.59
8 East_Asian 46.19
9 Siberian 1.14
10 Amerindian 1.11
11 Oceanian 1.12
12 Northeast_African 1.46
13 Sub-Saharan 23.68

Oracle X
Pct. Calc. Option 1

1 Dai 50.70%
2 Mandenka 26.19%
3 Danish 10.83%
4 Spanish_Aragon 4.97%
5 Southeast_English 3.64%
6 Yemenite_Jewish 2.75%
7 North_Amerindian 0.70%
8 NAN_Melanesian 0.22%
9 North_Swedish 0.00%
10 French 0.00%

and

Oracle X
1 North_Atlantic 10.07
2 Baltic 4.51
3 West_Med 3.28
4 West_Asian 0.00
5 East_Med 2.98
6 Red_Sea 1.86
7 South_Asian 2.59
8 East_Asian 46.19
9 Siberian 1.14
10 Amerindian 1.11
11 Oceanian 1.12
12 Northeast_African 1.46
13 Sub-Saharan 23.68

Pct. Calc. Option 2

1 Dai 38.19%
2 Mandenka 25.33%
3 French 10.05%
4 Southeast_English 9.62%
5 Vietnamese 9.33%
6 Malay 3.07%
7 Portuguese 2.11%
8 Lahu 1.10%
9 Saudi 1.09%
10 Mayan 0.11%

And using Calc 2

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Bantu_N.E. +50% Dai @ 20.375
2 50% Bantu_N.E. +50% Vietnamese @ 20.545
3 50% Dai +50% Luhya @ 20.691
4 50% Luhya +50% Vietnamese @ 20.864
5 50% Bantu_N.E. +50% Lahu @ 21.387
6 50% Dai +50% Mbuti_Pygmy @ 21.646
7 50% Bantu_N.E. +50% She @ 21.676
8 50% Lahu +50% Luhya @ 21.699
9 50% Biaka_Pygmy +50% Dai @ 21.716
10 50% Mbuti_Pygmy +50% Vietnamese @ 21.833
16110 iterations.



Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Dai +25% French +25% Yoruban @ 2.847
2 50% Dai +25% French +25% Yoruban @ 2.847
3 50% Dai +25% French +25% Mandenka @ 3.034
4 50% Dai +25% Portuguese +25% Yoruban @ 3.760
5 50% Dai +25% Portuguese +25% Yoruban @ 3.760
6 50% Dai +25% Spanish_Galicia +25% Yoruban @ 3.827
7 50% Dai +25% Spanish_Galicia +25% Yoruban @ 3.827
8 50% Dai +25% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon +25% Yoruban @ 3.881
9 50% Dai +25% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon +25% Yoruban @ 3.881
10 50% Dai +25% Bantu_S.W. +25% French @ 3.963
584640 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Dai + Dai + French + Yoruban @ 2.847
2 Dai + Dai + French + Yoruban @ 2.847
3 Dai + Dai + French + Mandenka @ 3.034
4 Dai + French + Vietnamese + Yoruban @ 3.369
5 Dai + French + Vietnamese + Yoruban @ 3.369
6 Dai + French + Mandenka + Vietnamese @ 3.558
7 Dai + Dai + Portuguese + Yoruban @ 3.760
8 Dai + Dai + Portuguese + Yoruban @ 3.760
9 Dai + Dai + Spanish_Galicia + Yoruban @ 3.827
10 Dai + Dai + Spanish_Galicia + Yoruban @ 3.827
11 Dai + Dai + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Yoruban @ 3.881
12 Dai + Dai + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Yoruban @ 3.881
13 Bantu_S.W. + Dai + Dai + French @ 3.963
14 Dai + Dai + Mandenka + Portuguese @ 3.970
15 Dai + Dai + Spanish_Cataluna + Yoruban @ 3.970
16 Dai + Dai + Spanish_Cataluna + Yoruban @ 3.970
17 Dai + Dai + Mandenka + Spanish_Galicia @ 3.991
18 Dai + Dai + Mandenka + Spanish_Cataluna @ 4.095
19 Dai + Dai + Spanish_Murcia + Yoruban @ 4.108
20 Dai + Dai + Spanish_Murcia + Yoruban @ 4.108


Pretty cool. Looks kinda accurate to me. My father is mixed with Black, White (Spanish, French, Italian) and Native American Indian.
My mother is East Asian (Taiwan)/Malay.

What do you think of this? What do you think of the European mixture? Does this look African American or some other type (Afro-Latino, biracial, etc) from my father's contribution?

Richard Robbins said...

50 % Polish, Rest is Hungarian, Croatian, with lots of Colonial ancestry and a possible link to the Caucasus region.

K13:

Population
North_Atlantic 33.27%
Baltic 40.22%
West_Med 12.14%
West_Asian 7.23%
East_Med 4.97%
Red_Sea 0.41%
South_Asian 0.22%
East_Asian 0.31%
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.17%
Oceanian 0.51%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.56%
Oracle:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Polish 3.44
2 Ukrainian_West 5.81
3 Ukrainian 6.07
4 Hungarian 9.01
5 Russian 9.6
6 Austrian 9.96
7 Ukrainian_Northeast 10.03
8 Belorussian 10.31
9 Southwest_Finnish 10.43
10 Estonian 12.43
11 North_Swedish 12.65
12 Finnish 13.09
13 Kargopol_Russian 13.7
14 Lithuanian 14.18
15 East_Finnish 15.5
16 Swedish 16.16
17 Serbian 16.16
18 German 16.4
19 Erzya 16.85
20 Norwegian 17.77

Oracle 4
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Polish @ 4.267
2 Ukrainian @ 7.193
3 Ukrainian_West @ 7.283
4 Russian @ 10.963
5 Hungarian @ 11.003
6 Southwest_Finnish @ 11.215
7 Belorussian @ 11.440
8 Ukrainian_Northeast @ 11.507
9 Austrian @ 12.036
10 Estonian @ 13.524
179 iterations.

Richard Robbins said...

Also, German and Austrian, documented. Seems to be just about right, I think.

Peter Larsen said...

Hello, I ran the K13 with Oracle. I am exactly 50% Swedish, 25% danish and 25% norwegian according to papertrail for about 7-8 generations back in time. The result approximation was very good:

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
Kit F320571

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 49.23
2 Baltic 28.2
3 West_Med 10.44
4 West_Asian 7.67
5 South_Asian 1.64
6 Siberian 0.67
7 Sub-Saharan 0.64
8 East_Asian 0.6
9 East_Med 0.58
10 Oceanian 0.26
11 Red_Sea 0.06
12 Amerindian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Norwegian 3.15
2 Swedish 3.87
3 Dutch 4.25
4 Danish 4.98
5 Orcadian 5.33
6 Irish 5.34
7 West_Scottish 6.29
8 German 6.48
9 Southeast_English 7.43
10 Southwest_English 7.99
11 North_Swedish 10.04
12 Austrian 16.41
13 French 16.51
14 Hungarian 17.28
15 Southwest_Finnish 18.07
16 Polish 20.84
17 Ukrainian_West 23
18 Ukrainian 23.58
19 Finnish 23.64
20 Serbian 23.81

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96.8% Norwegian + 3.2% Balochi @ 2.25
2 96.8% Norwegian + 3.2% Brahui @ 2.26
3 96.7% Norwegian + 3.3% Abhkasian @ 2.29
4 96.6% Norwegian + 3.4% Georgian @ 2.3
5 96.2% Norwegian + 3.8% North_Ossetian @ 2.31
6 96.8% Norwegian + 3.2% Makrani @ 2.31
7 95.9% Norwegian + 4.1% Chechen @ 2.32
8 96% Norwegian + 4% Lezgin @ 2.34
9 96.2% Norwegian + 3.8% Balkar @ 2.34
10 96.3% Norwegian + 3.7% Adygei @ 2.35
11 96.4% Norwegian + 3.6% Afghan_Pashtun @ 2.44
12 61.3% Swedish + 38.7% Irish @ 2.44
13 96.3% Norwegian + 3.7% Kumyk @ 2.45
14 96.8% Norwegian + 3.2% Kalash @ 2.47
15 96.1% Norwegian + 3.9% Tadjik @ 2.48
16 96.6% Norwegian + 3.4% Afghan_Tadjik @ 2.56
17 97% Norwegian + 3% Kurdish @ 2.56
18 83.4% Irish + 16.6% Finnish @ 2.57
19 97.3% Norwegian + 2.7% Sindhi @ 2.57
20 97.1% Norwegian + 2.9% Burusho @ 2.59

About Time said...

Gedrosia once again. Balochu, Brahui, Abkhasian, Georgian, etc.

What is it? We should be talking about what we do see in data (like Gedrosia in N Europe and more Caucasus like in C Europe), instead of what we don't see (like WHG in India, which so far is a no-show except in the mixed form of EEF).

Aloha79 said...

David,

I cannot find my previous post but I ran the EurogenesK13 per your suggestion. I had difficulty understanding my results with the Jtest but this test seems more accurate. The Jtest was confusing because it had significant Lithuanian and Ashkenazi results. I suppose the West Asian component is by way of migration. I am surprise with the Greek and Serbian admix.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 31.90
2 Baltic 26.70
3 West_Med 15.67
4 East_Med 12.08
5 West_Asian 9.26
6 South_Asian 2.82
7 Red_Sea 1.56
--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Austrian @ 5.736
2 Serbian @ 6.647
3 Hungarian @ 6.853
4 Romanian @ 10.483
5 Bulgarian @ 13.966
6 German @ 15.420
7 French @ 15.508
8 Polish @ 17.473
9 Ukrainian_West @ 17.909
10 Dutch @ 19.340
179 iterations.



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Bulgarian +50% German @ 3.520
2 50% Austrian +50% Serbian @ 3.962
3 50% German +50% Romanian @ 4.045
4 50% Bulgarian +50% Dutch @ 4.267
5 50% Austrian +50% Romanian @ 4.396
6 50% North_Italian +50% Polish @ 4.462
7 50% Greek +50% North_Swedish @ 4.728
8 50% Hungarian +50% Serbian @ 4.731
9 50% Bulgarian +50% Swedish @ 5.023
10 50% Hungarian +50% Romanian @ 5.036
16110 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Romanian +25% Austrian +25% Dutch @ 2.466
2 50% Romanian +25% Dutch +25% Hungarian @ 2.542
3 50% Romanian +25% Austrian +25% German @ 2.551
4 50% Romanian +25% German +25% Hungarian @ 2.664
5 50% Bulgarian +25% Austrian +25% Norwegian @ 2.730
6 50% Serbian +25% Dutch +25% Romanian @ 2.734
7 50% Hungarian +25% Dutch +25% Greek @ 2.760
8 50% Serbian +25% Norwegian +25% Romanian @ 2.765
9 50% Romanian +25% Norwegian +25% Serbian @ 2.771
10 50% Serbian +25% Danish +25% Romanian @ 2.792
538210 iterations.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Austrian + Greek + Southeast_English + Ukrainian_West @ 2.149
2 Austrian + Greek + Southwest_English + Ukrainian_West @ 2.194
3 Austrian + Greek + Southwest_English + Ukrainian @ 2.323
4 Greek + Irish + Polish + Serbian @ 2.335
5 Greek + Hungarian + Southwest_English + Ukrainian_West @ 2.335
6 French + German + Greek + Ukrainian_Northeast @ 2.364
7 Greek + Hungarian + Southeast_English + Ukrainian_West @ 2.372
8 Greek + Polish + Serbian + West_Scottish @ 2.385
9 Austrian + Greek + Southeast_English + Ukrainian @ 2.387
10 Austrian + Danish + Greek + Ukrainian_West @ 2.389
11 Greek + Serbian + Ukrainian + West_Scottish @ 2.400
12 Greek + Irish + Serbian + Ukrainian @ 2.446
13 Austrian + Greek + Orcadian + Ukrainian_West @ 2.447
14 Irish + Romanian + Tuscan + Ukrainian_Northeast @ 2.453
15 German + North_Italian + Romanian + Ukrainian_Northeast @ 2.457
16 Danish + Greek + Polish + Serbian @ 2.460
17 Austrian + Dutch + Romanian + Romanian @ 2.466
18 Austrian + Greek + Irish + Ukrainian_West @ 2.467
19 Greek + Hungarian + Southwest_English + Ukrainian @ 2.492
20 Austrian + Dutch + Greek + Ukrainian_West @ 2.493

klk said...

David,
I just ran the K13 and am very puzzled by the Oracle results. I am American. My father's side is Norwegian and Swedish; all 4 of his grandparents were immigrants from Norway and Sweden and as far back as we can find, that's where they were. My mother's side has deep colonial American roots; original immigrants from England, Ireland, Scotland, Holland, Germany, plus French and Italians who ended up in England before emigrating to the new world. My oracle results have me scratching my head as there is ZERO Swedish or Norwegian in the 3 and 4 populations mix (yes, he is my father LOL).

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 47.96
2 Baltic 28.95
3 West_Med 14.61
4 West_Asian 5.52
5 East_Med 1.88
6 East_Asian 1.08


--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Dutch @ 3.731
2 Norwegian @ 5.495
3 Swedish @ 6.105
4 German @ 6.244
5 Orcadian @ 6.317
6 Danish @ 6.768
7 Irish @ 7.230
8 Southeast_English @ 7.330
9 Southwest_English @ 8.214
10 West_Scottish @ 8.249
179 iterations.



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Dutch +50% Dutch @ 3.731
2 50% Dutch +50% Norwegian @ 3.924
3 50% Dutch +50% Swedish @ 3.982
4 50% German +50% Norwegian @ 4.144
5 50% North_Swedish +50% Southwest_English @ 4.369
6 50% Southeast_English +50% Swedish @ 4.434
7 50% German +50% Swedish @ 4.450
8 50% Southwest_English +50% Swedish @ 4.450
9 50% Dutch +50% German @ 4.674
10 50% Orcadian +50% Swedish @ 4.708
16110 iterations.



Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Southwest_English +25% Estonian +25% Southwest_English @ 2.916
2 50% Southwest_English +25% Irish +25% Polish @ 3.098
3 50% Southwest_English +25% Polish +25% West_Scottish @ 3.146
4 50% Southwest_English +25% Ukrainian +25% West_Scottish @ 3.153
5 50% West_Scottish +25% Southwest_English +25% Ukrainian @ 3.154
6 50% Irish +25% Polish +25% Southwest_English @ 3.172
7 50% Southwest_English +25% Irish +25% Ukrainian @ 3.178
8 50% West_Scottish +25% Polish +25% Southwest_English @ 3.213
9 50% Southwest_English +25% Orcadian +25% Polish @ 3.240
10 50% Irish +25% Southwest_English +25% Ukrainian @ 3.256
390134 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Estonian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 2.916
2 Irish + Polish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.098
3 Polish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.146
4 Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Ukrainian + West_Scottish @ 3.153
5 Southwest_English + Ukrainian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.154
6 Irish + Polish + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.170
7 Irish + Irish + Polish + Southwest_English @ 3.172
8 Irish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Ukrainian @ 3.178
9 Irish + Southwest_English + Ukrainian + West_Scottish @ 3.184
10 Polish + Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.213
11 Orcadian + Polish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.240
12 Irish + Orcadian + Polish + Southwest_English @ 3.241
13 Orcadian + Polish + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.252
14 Irish + Irish + Southwest_English + Ukrainian @ 3.256
15 Belorussian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.265
16 Dutch + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_Finnish @ 3.288
17 Lithuanian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.290
18 Estonian + Irish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.305
19 Polish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.329
20 Estonian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.330

klk said...

Here is my sister's results. This is more in line with what I expected.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 49.10
2 Baltic 27.74
3 West_Med 12.02
4 West_Asian 5.79
5 East_Med 3.73
6 East_Asian 1.61


--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Dutch @ 2.777
2 Danish @ 4.502
3 Norwegian @ 4.754
4 Orcadian @ 4.845
5 German @ 5.276
6 Swedish @ 5.432
7 Southeast_English @ 5.826
8 Irish @ 5.895
9 West_Scottish @ 6.754
10 Southwest_English @ 7.475
179 iterations.



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Southeast_English +50% Swedish @ 2.425
2 50% Dutch +50% Dutch @ 2.777
3 50% German +50% Norwegian @ 2.792
4 50% Dutch +50% Norwegian @ 2.915
5 50% Dutch +50% Swedish @ 2.978
6 50% Norwegian +50% Southeast_English @ 3.140
7 50% Danish +50% Dutch @ 3.165
8 50% Orcadian +50% Swedish @ 3.172
9 50% Southwest_English +50% Swedish @ 3.181
10 50% German +50% Swedish @ 3.215
16110 iterations.



Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Swedish +25% German +25% Southwest_English @ 2.293
2 50% Swedish +25% German +25% Southeast_English @ 2.316
3 50% Dutch +25% Southeast_English +25% Swedish @ 2.357
4 50% Dutch +25% Dutch +25% Swedish @ 2.420
5 50% Southeast_English +25% Swedish +25% Swedish @ 2.425
6 50% Swedish +25% Southeast_English +25% Southeast_English @ 2.425
7 50% Dutch +25% Danish +25% Swedish @ 2.435
8 50% Swedish +25% Dutch +25% Southeast_English @ 2.441
9 50% Norwegian +25% German +25% Southeast_English @ 2.466
10 50% Dutch +25% Orcadian +25% Swedish @ 2.478
410087 iterations.



Using 4 populations approximation:
1 German + Southwest_English + Swedish + Swedish @ 2.293
2 German + Norwegian + Southeast_English + Swedish @ 2.313
3 German + Southeast_English + Swedish + Swedish @ 2.316
4 Dutch + German + Orcadian + Swedish @ 2.327
5 Danish + Dutch + German + Swedish @ 2.334
6 Dutch + Dutch + Southeast_English + Swedish @ 2.357
7 German + Norwegian + Southwest_English + Swedish @ 2.414
8 Dutch + Dutch + Dutch + Swedish @ 2.420
9 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Swedish + Swedish @ 2.425
10 Dutch + German + Irish + Swedish @ 2.430
11 Dutch + German + Swedish + West_Scottish @ 2.433
12 Danish + Dutch + Dutch + Swedish @ 2.435
13 Dutch + German + Southeast_English + Swedish @ 2.440
14 Dutch + Southeast_English + Swedish + Swedish @ 2.441
15 German + Norwegian + Norwegian + Southeast_English @ 2.466
16 Dutch + Dutch + Orcadian + Swedish @ 2.478
17 Danish + German + Orcadian + Swedish @ 2.479
18 Danish + Dutch + German + Norwegian @ 2.491
19 German + Irish + North_Swedish + Southeast_English @ 2.496
20 German + North_Swedish + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 2.526

Aloha79 said...

I found this link to be useful in describing how recombination works. http://gcbias.org/2013/11/11/how-does-your-number-of-genetic-ancestors-grow-back-over-time/

Daniel Tinney said...

my k13
Pct. Calc. Option 1


1 Southeast_English 90.72%
2 Ashkenazi 3.42%
3 Iranian 2.10%
4 Dolgan 1.38%
5 Mari 0.81%
6 Turkmen 0.54%
7 Brahmin_UP 0.53%
8 Papuan 0.48%
9 Bulgarian 0.01%
10 Romanian 0.01%


Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 92.4% Southeast_English + 7.6% Turkmen @ 1.84
2 87% Orcadian + 13% Ashkenazi @ 1.96
3 92.4% Southeast_English + 7.6% Afghan_Turkmen @ 2.02
4 92.5% Southeast_English + 7.5% Turkish @ 2.03
5 92% Southeast_English + 8% Nogay @ 2.14
6 93.6% Southeast_English + 6.4% Iranian @ 2.14
7 90% Orcadian + 10% Cyprian @ 2.15
8 88.3% Orcadian + 11.7% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.17
9 90.8% Orcadian + 9.2% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.17
10 82.6% Danish + 17.4% Tuscan @ 2.2
11 93.8% Southeast_English + 6.2% Assyrian @ 2.22
12 93% Southeast_English + 7% Uzbeki @ 2.23
13 93% Southeast_English + 7% Afghan_Tadjik @ 2.23
14 93.6% Southeast_English + 6.4% Kurdish @ 2.23
15 87.2% Orcadian + 12.8% South_Italian @ 2.24
16 93.7% Southeast_English + 6.3% Azeri_Jewish @ 2.25
17 91.2% Orcadian + 8.8% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.25
18 93.9% Southeast_English + 6.1% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.26
19 85.9% Orcadian + 14.1% Greek @ 2.27
20 91% Orcadian + 9% Samaritan @ 2.3

Daniel Tinney said...

Does this indicate Jewish ancestry?

Daniel Tinney said...


Pct. Calc. Option 2


0 Unable to determine 0.01%
1 English 38.70%
2 NL 33.18%
3 DK 10.10%
4 Balochi 5.85%
5 AJ 5.42%
6 NO 4.70%
7 East_Russian 2.01%
8 East_Finnish 0.02%
9 Selkup 0.01%
10 Kalash 0.00%


Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 95.5% NL + 4.5% Balochi @ 2.15
2 95.5% NL + 4.5% Brahui @ 2.16
3 93.7% NL + 6.3% AJ @ 2.17
4 95.7% NL + 4.3% Kalash @ 2.26
5 95.1% NL + 4.9% IR @ 2.28
6 95.9% NL + 4.1% Burusho @ 2.31
7 95.3% NL + 4.7% Kurdish @ 2.31
8 96.3% NL + 3.7% Sindhi @ 2.36
9 86.4% DK + 13.6% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 2.38
10 90.6% DK + 9.4% Armenian @ 2.41
11 87.1% DK + 12.9% GR @ 2.42
12 82.3% DK + 17.7% Tuscan @ 2.43
13 95% NL + 5% TR @ 2.45
14 95.2% NL + 4.8% Lezgin @ 2.45
15 95.9% NL + 4.1% Mandean @ 2.47
16 95.8% NL + 4.2% Armenian @ 2.47
17 95.9% NL + 4.1% Assyrian @ 2.5
18 96.2% NL + 3.8% GE @ 2.51
19 97.1% NL + 2.9% IN @ 2.55
20 96% NL + 4% IQ @ 2.57

Zachary Shumway said...

To Anyone or DAVIDSKI if possible: Still looking for comment/opinion on some of my results. I think my ancestry is mostly Irish/Scot/English w/possible small amount Jewish; not sure. I keep getting small bits of African & Mediterranean. Thank you for any input.

k13
N.Atlantic 51.34%
Baltic 23.23
W.Med 10.59
W.Asian 5.12
E.Med 4.47
Red Sea 1.06
S.Asian 1.35
E.Asian -
Siberian 0.80
Amerindian 0.66
Oceanian 0.80
NE African -
SubSaharan 0.57

Op2 Oracle Mixed Mode Pop
1 98.2% Danish + 1.8% Yemenite_Jewish @ 2.03
2 98.2% Danish + 1.8% Saudi @ 2.05
3 98.1% Danish + 1.9% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.05
4 98% Danish + 2% Palestinian @ 2.06
5 97.6% Danish + 2.4% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.06
6 98.1% Danish + 1.9% Egyptian @ 2.08
7 98.1% Danish + 1.9% Jordanian @ 2.09
8 98.1% Danish + 1.9% Bedouin @ 2.09
9 98.2% Danish + 1.8% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.09
10 98.1% Danish + 1.9% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.1
11 98.1% Danish + 1.9% Syrian @ 2.1
12 98.2% Danish + 1.8% Samaritan @ 2.1
13 98.2% Danish + 1.8% Azeri_Jewish @ 2.12
14 96.3% West_Scottish + 3.7% Yemenite_Jewish @ 2.12
15 97.6% Danish + 2.4% South_Italian @ 2.12
16 98.2% Danish + 1.8% Cyprian @ 2.13
17 98% Danish + 2% Algerian @ 2.13
18 98.3% Danish + 1.7% Assyrian @ 2.14
19 98.1% Danish + 1.9% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.15
20 99.2% Danish + 0.8% Papuan @ 2.15

Jtest
S.Baltic 14.59%
E.Euro 11.95
N.Cen.Euro 29.07
Atlantic 25.31
W.Med 9.46
Ashkenazi 2.70
E.Med 2.31
W.Asian 3.23
Mid.East .32
S.Asian .84
E.African -
E.Asian -
Siberian -
W.African 0.20




Chad Gross said...

Pct. Calc. Option 2

Population
North_Atlantic 46.15%
Baltic 21.65%
West_Med 19.31%
West_Asian 2.96%
East_Med 6.94%
Red_Sea 2.10%
South_Asian 0.57%
East_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.24%
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.08%

windy said...

My K13 results. I'm Finnish, one grandparent is a Swedish-speaking Finn.

Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 47.57
2 North_Atlantic 35.37
3 Siberian 4.96
4 West_Med 4.24
5 West_Asian 3.13
6 East_Med 1.74
7 Amerindian 1.47
8 Sub-Saharan 1.06
9 Oceanian 0.24
10 Northeast_African 0.16
11 South_Asian 0.06

Oracle:
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Finnish 2.87
2 Estonian 4.73
3 Southwest_Finnish 5.46
4 East_Finnish 6.4
5 Belorussian 8.18
6 Lithuanian 9.6
7 Kargopol_Russian 10.22
8 Polish 11.12
9 Russian 11.31
10 Ukrainian_Northeast 11.56
11 Ukrainian 11.86
12 Ukrainian_West 12.78
13 North_Swedish 13.36
14 Erzya 13.69
15 Hungarian 18.68
16 Swedish 19.67
17 Austrian 19.84
18 Norwegian 21.44
19 German 23.45
20 Dutch 23.86

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 78.6% Finnish + 21.4% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.55
2 93.9% Finnish + 6.1% Swedish @ 2.58
3 95.1% Finnish + 4.9% German @ 2.61
4 94.7% Finnish + 5.3% Norwegian @ 2.61
5 95.3% Finnish + 4.7% Dutch @ 2.62
6 96% Finnish + 4% Irish @ 2.64
7 95.8% Finnish + 4.2% Danish @ 2.64
8 92.1% Finnish + 7.9% North_Swedish @ 2.64
9 96.1% Finnish + 3.9% Southeast_English @ 2.65
10 96.2% Finnish + 3.8% West_Scottish @ 2.65
11 90.9% Finnish + 9.1% Polish @ 2.66
12 96% Finnish + 4% Orcadian @ 2.66
13 95% Finnish + 5% Austrian @ 2.67
14 96.6% Finnish + 3.4% Southwest_English @ 2.68
15 94.8% Finnish + 5.2% Hungarian @ 2.69
16 80.6% Finnish + 19.4% Estonian @ 2.72
17 89.4% Finnish + 10.6% Belorussian @ 2.72
18 97.4% Finnish + 2.6% French @ 2.74
19 93.4% Finnish + 6.6% Ukrainian_Northeast @ 2.76
20 97.3% Finnish + 2.7% Serbian @ 2.78

About Time said...

@windy, Sub-Saharan 1.06%

There's that bizarre Hadza/San stuff that showed up in the mixture paper. Is there any way to isolate the segments in far corners of N Europe that the calculators think is Sub-Saharan and take a closer look at the haplotypes?

windy said...

@About Time: I tried the chromosome painting utility, and it looks like the Sub-Saharan peaks are mostly within or adjacent to other minority segments, like Siberian, Amerindian, West Med, Oceanian...

Fionn said...

Mother Southern English
Father half Scottish half Irish.

Results show more Irish than I would expect from my genealogy.
The south Asian also seems high, can someone tell me if that is recent??

North_Atlantic 53.07
2 Baltic 22.52
3 West_Med 12.16
4 West_Asian 9.42
5 South_Asian 2.83

Oracle 4

1 Irish @ 4.409
2 West_Scottish @ 4.813
3 Orcadian @ 6.203
4 Southwest_English @ 6.534
5 Danish @ 6.570
6 Southeast_English @ 8.044
7 Dutch @ 8.254
8 Norwegian @ 9.523
9 German @ 10.785
10 Swedish @ 11.362
179 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +50% Irish @ 4.409
2 50% Irish +50% West_Scottish @ 4.553
3 50% West_Scottish +50% West_Scottish @ 4.813
4 50% Irish +50% Southwest_English @ 5.213
5 50% Irish +50% Orcadian @ 5.253
6 50% Danish +50% Irish @ 5.368
7 50% Orcadian +50% West_Scottish @ 5.405
8 50% Southwest_English +50% West_Scottish @ 5.450
9 50% Danish +50% West_Scottish @ 5.510
10 50% Irish +50% Southeast_English @ 6.011
16110 iterations.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Irish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 4.409
2 Irish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 4.466
3 Irish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.553
4 Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.670
5 Irish + Irish + Irish + Southwest_English @ 4.726
6 Irish + Irish + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 4.811
7 West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.813
8 Irish + Irish + Irish + Orcadian @ 4.814
9 Danish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 4.849
10 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 4.874
11 Danish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 4.907
12 Irish + Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.924
13 Irish + Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.963
14 Danish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.993
15 Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 5.062
16 Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 5.078
17 Danish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 5.105
18 Irish + Irish + Irish + Southeast_English @ 5.128
19 Danish + Irish + Irish + Southwest_English @ 5.141
20 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 5.150

windy said...

@barakobama: "there is no evidence of farming in most of Finland and Scandinavia till the copper and bronze age right? How did such farmer like mtDNA become dominate even in those areas?"

There is surprisingly early evidence of farming in Finland (5000 BC: buckwheat introduced from the east). But more persistent farming was not introduced until the Corded Ware culture (and even then the evidence for crops is rather thin). It's assumed that this culture was ultimately assimilated by the locals, giving rise to a hybrid farming-hunting-fishing culture along the coasts from about 2000 BC.

It's tempting to speculate about the origins of farmer-like mtDNA in Finns in some fusion like this, especially since most Finnish terms for female relatives (but not for males) are Indo-European loanwords :) But this is probably too simplistic- as Fanty said, the populations were tiny, so some serious drift is expected. Also, the admixture could have happened elsewhere, before the ancestors of Finns moved to the area.

Lloyd said...

Dear Davidski,

As you kindly advised me yesterday, I'm posting my results here and a few questions. I think those results are quite correct because I am indeed largely of French and southwestern French origin (Gascony region), though I don't know well my origins on my father's side. Those results got me very curious about a few things, but I tried to limit my questions to what I believe is essential and will really allow me to understand those results.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 42.51
2 West_Med 24.78
3 Baltic 19.2
4 East_Med 8.07
5 West_Asian 3.64
6 Red_Sea 1.04
7 Northeast_African 0.68
8 Oceanian 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 French 5.88
2 Southwest_French 7.62
3 Spanish_Cataluna 7.85
4 Spanish_Cantabria 8.51
5 Spanish_Galicia 8.96
6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 9.05
7 Portuguese 9.69
8 Spanish_Valencia 10.29
9 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 10.35
10 Spanish_Murcia 10.99
11 Spanish_Extremadura 11.13
12 Spanish_Aragon 11.55
13 Spanish_Andalucia 12.17
14 Southeast_English 12.91
15 German 13.13
16 Southwest_English 13.19
17 Dutch 14.33
18 Orcadian 15.08
19 North_Italian 15.44
20 Danish 15.91

Pct. Calc. Option 1

1 French 40.52%
2 French_Basque 33.96%
3 Ukrainian 20.99%
4 Sardinian 3.14%
5 Bulgarian 0.77%
6 Serbian 0.54%
7 Tuscan 0.08%
8 Russian 0.00%
9 Greek 0.00%
10 Romanian 0.00%

Pct. Calc. Option 2

0 Unable to determine 0.01%
1 French 46.58%
2 Southwest_French 13.98%
3 Sardinian 7.23%
4 Russian 7.23%
5 Southwest_English 7.06%
6 French_Basque 6.82%
7 Ukrainian 4.31%
8 Southwest_Finnish 3.64%
9 Spanish_Cantabria 2.05%
10 Spanish_Aragon 1.09%

Here's a few questions I have:

1. Why are there 2 calculators, and what's the difference between them? Is one more reliable than the other? Does "French 40.52%" mean there's a 40.52% chance I'm of French origin?

2. Do you happen to know where exactly the "Southern French" samples were taken? And can I consider myself quite close to the French (5.88) and southwestern French (7.62) references, or am I a bit far from them? (Don't know how to interpret those figures).

3. I might be wrong, but I don't think I have any known Ukrainian/Russian background. Could this reference be linked to the southwest French/Basque origin, those populations having been perhaps related in ancient times?

4. Could the admixture results "4 East_Med 8.07
5 West_Asian 3.64
6 Red_Sea 1.04"
reveal some significant extra-European background? If so, did this originate more likely in ancient times or in a more recent period?

Again, thank you very much in advance! This means a lot to me.

Davidski said...

Lloyd,

These results are very much in line with your self-reported ancestry, with no surprises as far as I can see. You're indeed very close to the main French reference set, and also not too far away from the Southwest French sample, which includes people from Gascony. Based on these outcomes, I'd describe you as typically French, but pulling strongly towards southwestern France.

The seemingly unexpected results, like the 20% Ukrainian score in the Pct. Calc. Option 1 test, are signals from ancient population movements. We're only really starting to learn about these prehistoric migrations thanks to ancient genomics, but, for instance, it's already obvious that during the Neolithic, Western Europe was populated by Basque-like people.

During or after the Copper Age there were population movements into France and even Iberia from Eastern Europe (most likely from present-day Balkans, Ukraine and/or southern Russia). These invaders mixed with the locals, but today we can still see signals of these different groups in modern DNA.

Similarly, the East Med and Red Sea results are signals of ancient migrations too, and these probably date back to the early Neolithic. I've got some entries about this stuff at my other blog. You might find them useful, as well as the paper that I wrote about, which is open access.

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/ancient-human-genomes-suggest-three.html

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2014/01/another-look-at-lazaridis-et-al-ancient.html

Now, the 40.52% French score can indeed be interpreted as a 40.52% probability of belonging to the French reference set. But it's probably more useful to look at all of the scores together, and see them as an attempt by the algorithm to make your genome fit the available reference samples as best as it can.

The reason there are different calculators and oracles is so that you can analyze your ancestry from somewhat different angles. In other words, all of the Eurogenes calculators and oracles will essentially tell you the same thing, but because they're based on different ancestral components and algorithms, they focus on different timeframes of admixture. This can be confusing to begin with, but very useful once you get your head around the concepts involved.

As always when it comes to ancestry tests, the best thing to do is to compare your scores to those of other people, especially those from your local area.

Alexandre Marinho said...

Dear Davidski,

I am from Brazil, and submited my DNA to the K13 test because i can trace my origins to the region of Portugal/Spain, since my grandfather was portuguese. My test Points me towards Spain. Do you think this is the most accurate test for me? Here are my results.

Population
North_Atlantic 36.40%
Baltic 10.22%
West_Med 24.41%
West_Asian 0.80%
East_Med 11.72%
Red_Sea 4.99%
South_Asian 1.67%
East_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 3.99%
Oceanian 0.29%
Northeast_African 2.47%
Sub-Saharan 3.04%

Calc option 1

1 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 74.48%
2 Moroccan 8.00%
3 French_Basque 7.99%
4 Karitiana 3.61%
5 East_Finnish 2.49%
6 Mandenka 1.77%
7 Chamar 1.63%

Option 2

1 Spanish_Galicia 72.75%
2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 9.92%
3 French_Basque 6.74%
4 Karitiana 3.49%
5 Moroccan 3.36%
6 Mandenka 1.87%
7 Ethiopian_Tigray 1.22%
8 Chamar 0.51%


Thank you a lot in advance,


Alexandre.

Davidski said...

That looks close enough, but I'd really recommend the four ancestors oracle before any of the others. That's the easiest one to read. You should see Portuguese pop up in that one somewhere.

Alexandre Marinho said...

Dear Davidski, here are the four ancestor oracle results as you recommended:

Calc Option 1:


Using 4 populations approximation:

1 Algerian + French_Basque + Southeast_English + Spanish_Galicia @ 4.533
2 French_Basque + Mozabite_Berber + Southeast_English + Spanish_Galicia @ 4.541
3 Mozabite_Berber + Southwest_English + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.559
4 Mozabite_Berber + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon + West_Scottish @ 4.559
5 Mozabite_Berber + Orcadian + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.562
6 Mozabite_Berber + Southeast_English + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.565
7 French_Basque + Mozabite_Berber + Portuguese + Southeast_English @ 4.603
8 Irish + Mozabite_Berber + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.613
9 Mozabite_Berber + Orcadian + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.618
10 Danish + Mozabite_Berber + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.634
11 Mozabite_Berber + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Cantabria + West_Scottish @ 4.635
12 Moroccan + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon + West_Scottish @ 4.641
13 Moroccan + Orcadian + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.643
14 Algerian + Dutch + French_Basque + Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.644
15 Dutch + French_Basque + Mozabite_Berber + Spanish_Murcia @ 4.645
16 Moroccan + Southeast_English + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.646
17 Algerian + Dutch + French_Basque + Spanish_Galicia @ 4.653
18 Mozabite_Berber + Southwest_English + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.654
19 French_Basque + Mozabite_Berber + Southeast_English + Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.657
20 Algerian + Southwest_English + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.657

Calc Option 2:

1 Algerian + French_Basque + Southeast_English + Spanish_Galicia @ 4.533
2 French_Basque + Mozabite_Berber + Southeast_English + Spanish_Galicia @ 4.541
3 Mozabite_Berber + Southwest_English + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.559
4 Mozabite_Berber + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon + West_Scottish @ 4.559
5 Mozabite_Berber + Orcadian + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.562
6 Mozabite_Berber + Southeast_English + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.565
7 French_Basque + Mozabite_Berber + Portuguese + Southeast_English @ 4.603
8 Irish + Mozabite_Berber + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.613
9 Mozabite_Berber + Orcadian + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.618
10 Danish + Mozabite_Berber + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.634
11 Mozabite_Berber + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Cantabria + West_Scottish @ 4.635
12 Moroccan + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon + West_Scottish @ 4.641
13 Moroccan + Orcadian + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.643
14 Algerian + Dutch + French_Basque + Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.644
15 Dutch + French_Basque + Mozabite_Berber + Spanish_Murcia @ 4.645
16 Moroccan + Southeast_English + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.646
17 Algerian + Dutch + French_Basque + Spanish_Galicia @ 4.653
18 Mozabite_Berber + Southwest_English + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.654
19 French_Basque + Mozabite_Berber + Southeast_English + Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.657
20 Algerian + Southwest_English + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.657

How should i read this? I can't understand the percentage of each group. Is it 25%?


Thank you in advance.

Alexandre Marinho said...

In the one population aproximation portuguese pops up:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Spanish_Galicia @ 5.781
2 Portuguese @ 6.063
3 Spanish_Extremadura @ 6.348
4 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 6.913
5 Spanish_Murcia @ 7.265
6 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 8.418
7 Spanish_Valencia @ 8.634
8 Spanish_Cataluna @ 8.696
9 Spanish_Cantabria @ 9.100
10 Spanish_Andalucia @ 9.176


But after Spanish.

Lloyd said...

Thank you so much for this very helpful answer.
I'm glad I discovered your blogs. All this stuff is so fascinating!

Those results do seem consistent with my belonging to haplogroup R1b1a2a1a1b2 (the so-called "Basque marker"), and my mtDNA Haplogroup K might explain those old eastern origins.

I really enjoyed reading your piece about Europe's ancient populations. This makes me feel like knowing my EEF-WHG-ANE ancestry proportions, but I haven't been able to do it, even following the instructions on your post. Could you (or any one else reading this comment) please have the generosity to use the data I posted earlier and tell me what my EEF-WHG-ANE proportions are? I promise this is my last request!

Lloyd said...

It's no longer necessary, as someone kindly offered to do it for me :)

In case anyone's interested, here's my results:
EEF 59,46724

WHG 28,3403

ANE 12,19247

This time, I appear to look much closer to Basques (0.593 0.293 0.114) than French people (0.554 0.311 0.135). Guess I'm more "Neolithic" than Indo-European!

Chad Gross said...

Davidski,

How would I go about reading these two. I did the EUtest V2 K15 Oracle 4, and then Eurogene K13 Oracle 4.

This is the EU V2 K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 30.97
2 Atlantic 27.92
3 West_Med 14.75
4 Baltic 13.58
5 Eastern_Euro 4.85
6 East_Med 3.48
7 West_Asian 2.48
8 Red_Sea 1.98


Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 French @ 7.679
2 Southwest_English @ 7.959
3 German @ 8.431
4 Southeast_English @ 9.551


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Southwest_French + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Swedish + Swedish @ 4.008
2 Spanish_Cantabria + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Swedish + Swedish @ 4.206
3 Norwegian + Southwest_French + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Swedish @ 4.253
4 Southwest_French + Spanish_Cantabria + Swedish + Swedish @ 4.262
5 Southwest_French + Spanish_Cataluna + Swedish + Swedish @ 4.270
6 French_Basque + Spanish_Galicia + Swedish + Swedish @ 4.272
7 Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Swedish + Swedish @ 4.363
8 Spanish_Cantabria + Spanish_Cantabria + Swedish + Swedish @ 4.371
9 Southwest_French + Southwest_French + Swedish + Swedish @ 4.386
10 Irish + Southwest_French + Spanish_Galicia + Swedish @ 4.388
11 Orcadian + Southwest_French + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Swedish @ 4.402
12 Southwest_French + Spanish_Galicia + Swedish + Swedish @ 4.434
13 Spanish_Cantabria + Spanish_Cataluna + Swedish + Swedish @ 4.447
14 French + Southwest_English + Southwest_French + Swedish @ 4.458
15 Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon + Swedish + Swedish @ 4.466
16 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Swedish + Swedish @ 4.473
17 Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Cantabria + Swedish + Swedish @ 4.499
18 Norwegian + Spanish_Cantabria + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Swedish @ 4.500
19 Dutch + Southwest_French + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Swedish @ 4.529
20 Norwegian + Southwest_French + Spanish_Cataluna + Swedish @ 4.529


And this is the Eurogene K13


# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 46.56
2 Baltic 21.84
3 West_Med 19.48
4 East_Med 7.00
5 West_Asian 2.99
6 Red_Sea 2.12


Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 French @ 7.184
2 Southeast_English @ 7.739
3 Southwest_English @ 8.573
4 German @ 9.214


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon + Swedish + Swedish @ 2.209
2 Norwegian + Southwest_French + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Swedish @ 2.327
3 French + Southeast_English + Southwest_French + Swedish @ 2.328
4 Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Cantabria + Swedish + Swedish @ 2.363
5 Norwegian + Norwegian + Southwest_French + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.382
6 French + Norwegian + Southeast_English + Southwest_French @ 2.393
7 French + Southwest_English + Southwest_French + Swedish @ 2.397
8 Norwegian + Southwest_French + Spanish_Valencia + Swedish @ 2.410
9 North_Swedish + Southwest_French + Spanish_Cataluna + West_Scottish @ 2.426
10 Southwest_French + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Swedish + Swedish @ 2.429
11 Southwest_French + Spanish_Valencia + Swedish + Swedish @ 2.435
12 North_Swedish + Southwest_French + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + West_Scottish @ 2.438
13 Southwest_French + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Swedish + Swedish @ 2.438
14 Danish + Southwest_French + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Swedish @ 2.443
15 Norwegian + Southwest_French + Spanish_Cataluna + Swedish @ 2.444
16 Danish + Southwest_French + Spanish_Cataluna + Swedish @ 2.449
17 Norwegian + Southwest_French + Spanish_Aragon + Swedish @ 2.461
18 Dutch + Southwest_French + Spanish_Cataluna + Swedish @ 2.469
19 North_Swedish + Southwest_English + Southwest_French + Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.477
20 Dutch + Dutch + French + Southwest_French @ 2.478

From what I can tell it shows a strong French connection? However, I've found very few ancestors from France or with French origin Surnames. I've quite a few German ancestors as well as Scots, Irish and English. One or two ancestors from the Netherlands in the past 200-250 yrs.

I've found no ancestors coming from Spain/Portugal. No surnames that would even reflect the Iberian Peninsula.

Alexandre Marinho said...

Davidski i think i figured this out. I compared my results on the k13 and k15 with the averages of each population that you post here in the blog, and it turns out i am really close to the portuguese, as expected, and the spanish from galicia. I also have some sub saharian african and amerindian probably because of the mix here in Brazil.

Here are the results for comparison:


Portuguese average: 38.53; 11.51; 25.31; 2.43; 13.9; 3.63; 0.416; 0.136; 0.253; 0.436; 0.673; 1.7166; 1.043

Mine results: 36.40; 10.22; 24.41; 0.80; 11.72; 4.99; 1.67; 0; 0; 3.99; 0.29; 2.47; 3.04

Spanish Galicia: 38.50666667 12.18333333 26.23 1.97 11.93 4.546666667 1.493333333 0.36 0.22 0.143333333 0.003333333 1.256666667 1.16

Is this conclusion right?

Thank you,

Alexandre.

Fionn said...

@Lloyd How was that EEf-WHG-ANE conversion done? Do you know?

Lloyd said...

@Fionn Just follow the instructions there: http://bga101.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/eef-whg-ane-test-for-europeans.html
I wasn't able to do it because I don't have an efficient Excel version, so I asked a friend. But there might be other ways around it.

Anne Childress said...

The Eurogenes K13 appeared the most accurate for me. I wasn't sure if the tests are accurate about the amount of Amerindian, though. I was given a result of 2.45 for Amerind and 5.45 for Asian. Could the Asian characteristics be from Amerindian heritage?
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 14.85%
2 Baltic 7.26%
3 West_Med 6.35%
4 West_Asian 0.00%
5 East_Med 6.36%
6 Red_Sea 0.73%
7 South_Asian 3.46%
8 East_Asian 0.50%
9 Siberian 0.76%
10 Amerindian 2.05%
11 Oceanian 0.00%
12 Northeast_African 3.63%
13 Sub-Saharan 54.05%

Tammy Brown said...

Population
North_Atlantic 7.90%
Baltic 3.53%
West_Med 2.07%
West_Asian 0.58%
East_Med -
Red_Sea 0.97%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 1.83%
Siberian 0.14%
Amerindian 0.41%
Oceanian 0.21%
Northeast_African 5.47%
Sub-Saharan 76.88%

jeff cotham said...

Davidski,
First - thanks for all the great work! Can you help me interpret it? What key factors should I be centering on to interpret the percentage and oracle data? How do you determine time of influx of populations/cultures?

jeffcotham@earthlink.net

Expected ethnicity:
British, Irish, Scot, Swiss, German, French, Dutch, other Scandinavian - in perceived order of highest to lowest percentages. Ancestry DNA ethnicity also said 2% Polynesian; family stories say there should be some American Indian in there too - 7 generations or so back.

I am aware of Swiss Mennonites in one branch (Kagi, Meyer, some are supposed to go back to lake-pole house dwelling cultures on Lake Geneva), German Palatinate members (Beeri, Kreidlebach, Kierstede, Spier, etc.), French Huguenots in another branch (Rouset), Norwegian – Dutch (Webber – Jans, Flekerroy Island Norway – 1600s), Nottinghamshire England, Cornwall, English via Barbados in the 1700s possibly (Cotham, Payne, etc.), Stuarts, Milligans, Holigans from Ireland, Watsons from Scotland, Carter/Cartier – English/Normans, American Indians, possibly Delaware Indians – late 1600s, and so on.

Eurogenes K13 results:
Eurogenes K13:
Kit Number: A793118 Iteration: 1000 Delta-Q: 1.962031e-02 Elapsed Time: 73.90 seconds

Population
North_Atlantic 46.13%
Baltic 23.11%
West_Med 14.39%
West_Asian 6.59%
East_Med 4.58%
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 1.59%
East_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 1.72%
Oceanian 1.20%
Northeast_African 0.67%
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Kit A793118

Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 46.13
2 Baltic 23.11
3 West_Med 14.39
4 West_Asian 6.59
5 East_Med 4.58
6 Amerindian 1.72
7 South_Asian 1.59
8 Oceanian 1.2
9 Northeast_African 0.67
10 East_Asian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 German 3.91
2 Southeast_English 4.58
3 Dutch 4.61
4 Orcadian 5.78
5 Southwest_English 6.08
6 Danish 6.14
7 Irish 6.5
8 West_Scottish 7.17
9 Norwegian 8.49
10 Swedish 9.43
11 French 9.66
12 Austrian 14.04
13 North_Swedish 14.46
14 Hungarian 15.22
15 Spanish_Cataluna 16.98
16 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 18.23
17 Spanish_Galicia 18.26
18 Southwest_French 18.36
19 Portuguese 18.46
20 Spanish_Cantabria 18.73

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.9% Irish + 19.1% Bulgarian @ 2.4
2 79.1% Irish + 20.9% Romanian @ 2.47
3 79.2% West_Scottish + 20.8% Bulgarian @ 2.49
4 77.2% West_Scottish + 22.8% Romanian @ 2.55
5 93% Southeast_English + 7% Balkar @ 2.55
6 87.1% Orcadian + 12.9% Greek @ 2.57
7 92.7% Southeast_English + 7.3% Kumyk @ 2.58
8 92.8% Southeast_English + 7.2% Chechen @ 2.59
9 93.2% Southeast_English + 6.8% Adygei @ 2.61
10 93.3% Southeast_English + 6.7% North_Ossetian @ 2.62
11 89.9% German + 10.1% French_Basque @ 2.63
12 85.5% Irish + 14.5% Greek @ 2.65
13 83.3% Orcadian + 16.7% Bulgarian @ 2.65
14 93.1% Southeast_English + 6.9% Afghan_Tadjik @ 2.69
15 81.6% Orcadian + 18.4% Romanian @ 2.72
16 92.3% Southeast_English + 7.7% Nogay @ 2.72
17 92.6% Southeast_English + 7.4% Tadjik @ 2.74
18 93.4% Southeast_English + 6.6% Afghan_Pashtun @ 2.75
19 85.3% Dutch + 14.7% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.76
20 93.1% Southeast_English + 6.9% Lezgin @ 2.77


Thanks in advance for any help!
Jeff

Davidski said...

Hi Jeff,

You are showing slightly elevated levels of Amerindian and Oceanian ancestry, so it might be useful to have a look at the K13 chromosome painting for segments with these admixtures, and whether you share any IBD hits with people of Amerindian and Polynesian background in the areas of the genome where those segments are located.

Apart from that, based on your self-reported ancestry, you should be showing a lot of affinity to continental European populations, like Germans, and this is indeed the case.

But it might be useful to wait for the updated population averages to be uploaded at GEDmatch for the K13 and K15 tests, and then try the 4 ancestors oracle. This should show you a more detailed breakdown of your ancestry from within northwestern and west central Europe.

Gabriel Marin said...

Hi Davidksi,
Can you suggest if the Amerindian is historic (colonial) or prehistoric?
Thank you,
Gabriel

North_Atlantic 43.86%
Baltic 20.67%
West_Med 16.15%
West_Asian 7.46%
East_Med 6.08%
Red_Sea 3.01%
South_Asian 0.77%
East_Asian 0.26%
Siberian -
Amerindian 1.46%
Oceanian 0.29%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

cesarlhermite said...

Hi Davidski,

Thanks again for your great work. Just wondering if a 0.68% Northeast African should be considered mere noise or a sign of real admixture?

PS: I look forward to the update! Will the results be a lot more specific?

Gabriel Marin said...

sorry, I should mention I'm Dutch, Belgian and possibly Spanish.

Carlos Cruz said...

Hi David! This is my k13 admixture... could you help interpret these results? Thanks!

my kit# is M095333
Population
North_Atlantic 19.74%
Baltic 3.59%
West_Med 15.46%
West_Asian 1.37%
East_Med 5.68%
Red_Sea 2.74%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 1.26%
Siberian 2.49%
Amerindian 37.73%
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 2.53%
Sub-Saharan 7.40%

Theresa Bruno said...

Below are my results. I must say I feel like an absolute idiot. I don't understand my results. As far as I know I'm Irish, Italian, English, Welsh, Scottish and German. I've read through the comments and still don't understand. Any help with interpretation?

1 North_Sea 29.5
2 Atlantic 26.52
3 West_Med 9.69
4 Baltic 8.78
5 East_Med 8.27
6 Eastern_Euro 6.97
7 West_Asian 6.28
8 Red_Sea 1.62
9 Northeast_African 1.08
10 Amerindian 0.81
11 South_Asian 0.32
12 Siberian 0.15

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 French 6.03
2 German 6.78
3 Southwest_English 8.31
4 Southeast_English 8.41
5 Dutch 9.79
6 Danish 9.9
7 Irish 10.08
8 West_Scottish 10.64
9 Orcadian 11.98
10 Austrian 12.94
11 Spanish_Cataluna 13.01
12 Norwegian 13.31
13 Spanish_Galicia 13.47
14 Swedish 13.94
15 Portuguese 13.96
16 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 14.16
17 Hungarian 14.4
18 Serbian 14.85
19 Spanish_Murcia 14.9
20 Spanish_Extremadura 15.07

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.6% Southeast_English + 16.4% Cyprian @ 1.51
2 84% Southeast_English + 16% Lebanese_Muslim @ 1.62
3 80.7% Southeast_English + 19.3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 1.63
4 77.6% Irish + 22.4% Sephardic_Jewish @ 1.7
5 81% Irish + 19% Cyprian @ 1.77
6 77.4% Southeast_English + 22.6% Ashkenazi @ 1.78
7 85.3% Southeast_English + 14.7% Samaritan @ 1.84
8 84.2% Southeast_English + 15.8% Syrian @ 1.85
9 76.7% West_Scottish + 23.3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 1.88
10 85.6% Southeast_English + 14.4% Lebanese_Christian @ 1.91
11 80.2% West_Scottish + 19.8% Cyprian @ 2.05
12 84.8% Southeast_English + 15.2% Jordanian @ 2.07
13 74.1% Irish + 25.9% Ashkenazi @ 2.07
14 66.4% West_Scottish + 33.6% Tuscan @ 2.08
15 68.1% Danish + 31.9% Tuscan @ 2.1
16 84.4% Southwest_English + 15.6% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.18
17 85.2% Southeast_English + 14.8% Palestinian @ 2.22
18 73% West_Scottish + 27% Ashkenazi @ 2.26
19 85.8% Southwest_English + 14.2% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.26
20 67.7% Irish + 32.3% Tuscan 227

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